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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel > Universal M25 losing power
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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-08-2012 06:18 PM
eherlihy
Re: Universal M25 losing power

Thus my answer of 1000 which covers them all
11-08-2012 02:51 PM
Maine Sail
Re: Universal M25 losing power

Quote:
Originally Posted by weinie View Post
Maine,

What about the 2 cylinder M18 engine? I have not been able to find any documentation anywhere specifying the correct idle speed! I was hoping you might know.
Per Joe Joyce at Westerbeke:

The 2 & 3 cylinder Universals are 1000 - 1200 Idle RPM
The 4 Cylinder Universals are 800 - 1000 Idle RPM
11-08-2012 12:02 AM
Paladin
Re: Universal M25 losing power

Have you had the injectors pop tested? Are they up to spec pressure? Pattern right? How much oil pressure does your engine hold? Govenor on injection pump deviates if engine oil pressure low due to fact engine oil pressure directly influences injection pump govenor, I.E. injection pump govenor is oil pressure throttled under load.
10-07-2012 09:57 PM
eherlihy
Re: Universal M25 losing power

So today I removed and replaced the fuel pump filter with a NAPA 610-1086 ($18 with shipping, 'cause I didn't want to drive 20 miles to NAPA).

I would like to express my thanks to Stu Jackson, because I never knew there was a fuel pump filter, and to Maine Sail, for his excellent write up of how to replace the Facet Fuel Pump Filter (here).

Here is what my (original?) Facet fuel pump filter and gasket looked like;


It wasn't terrible, but you can see a good deal of "stuff" that had been filtered out. I actually tried to take a picture of the worst side of the filter. The other side was relatively clean. Note that I have not changed the fuel lines yet. Therefore the fuel pump is the first stop after the fuel tank petcock. The next stop is the Raycor. Next year I'll change that.

There was no evidence of corrosion on the bottom of the filter, so I would guess that my tank is relatively free of H2O. I was surprised by the amount of gunk in the filter housing, and, what appeared to be sawdust(?!) trapped in the filter housing. The gasket looked to be in good condition, so I wiped the gunk off, and will keep it as a spare.

Also note that the black button in the center of the bottom cover is actually a magnet. I believe that this is installed in the filter assembly to attract metal particles, should they penetrate the filter.

RE: weinie's post above - I believe that ALL of these Universal engines should have the idle set to 1000.
10-07-2012 09:48 PM
weinie
Re: Universal M25 losing power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
No it should not. That is HALF what the idle RPM on an M-25 should be.

The entire Universal M-25 line up, including the M-25, M-25XP and M-25-XPB are all 1000-1200 RPM for idle speed, per Westerbeke specifications.
Maine,

What about the 2 cylinder M18 engine? I have not been able to find any documentation anywhere specifying the correct idle speed! I was hoping you might know.
10-02-2012 05:07 PM
Maine Sail
Re: Universal M25 losing power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Gary Randall View Post
idle RPM should be 550 to 600 apparently you posted this right before I posted to you...lol
No it should not. That is HALF what the idle RPM on an M-25 should be.

The entire Universal M-25 line up, including the M-25, M-25XP and M-25-XPB are all 1000-1200 RPM for idle speed, per Westerbeke specifications.
10-01-2012 11:05 AM
eherlihy
Re: Problem solved!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Three that jump out are the leaking water pump gasket and rear seal, that hose crossing the alternator belt, and the ground attached to the alternator adjustment bracket bolt.

Your engine looks much better - nice job with the mounting brackets, re-routing of the hose that crossed the alternator belt, and new alternator tensioning bracket.

Tell us more...
Very good - I'll give you a passing grade!

Thanks! She is slowly getting there.... and so am I

The screaming obvious thing to me was the alternator mounting bracket. This should have been called out on the survey... The leaking FWP was also missed on the survey... I don't hold much stock in surveyors opinions
10-01-2012 10:58 AM
eherlihy
Re: Universal M25 losing power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I take a stab;

*Antifreeze tank "appears" mounted too low [It was - now corrected]
*Fluid not filled to correct level
*Leaking RWP face plate gasket [It was - the pump has since been rebuilt, and I have a complete spare]
*Leaking water seal on RWP [Yep - that's #1]
*Alternator adjustment arm on backwards [The entire alternator mount was junk - that's #2]
*Crimp fitting on non-factory temp T not heat shrunk
*Zip tie holding coolant hose is plastic (could melt) [or chafe through - that's #3]
*Poor routing of coolant hose around alternator [Yup - also #3]
*Hose clamp too long
*Ground wire under alt adjustment not ideal location
*Aftermarket oil filter (larger OD) impinging on factory alternator bracket
*Alternator bracket had not been updated despite the timing gear case obviously having been replaced. [also #3]
* Positive 12V wires not properly secured appears to be rubbing on the manifold [That's #4]
*Non-factory tee added to t-stat housing which can lead to improper flow around temp sender/alarm. Should be removed and plumbed correctly. [That's #5]
*Fuel hose on left should be better secured so as not to chafe on RWP
*White 12V wires on left appear to be chafing on fuel bleeder screw & air filter
*FWP, based on corrosion, appears to leak or has leaked [That's #6]
*PCV hose impinged and possibly pinched closed by alternator bracket
*Plastic zip ties in engine spaces are ABYC non-preferred.
*90 degree elbow on RWP can be a debris catcher and can increase head pressure [That's #7]
*Fuel hoses should be double clamped (does not look it but hard to tell)


Sorry I got more than 7 though some are hard to tell from the angle....


You win the prize!


Here is what the SAMS / AMS (& ABYC) Certified Surveyor said about the overall condition of the motor;
Quote:
Make: Universal Location: Under Cockpit
Model: M 25 Ser.No.: [redacted]
No.Cyl.: 3 H.P.: 25 R.P.M.:
Year: 1987 Hrs.: 171 ? Overhauled:
Fuel System: Hose, 12 VT Fuel Pump, Racor Filter Separator
Cooling System: Fresh Water
Sea Strainer: External and Bronze Internal
Exhaust System: Raw Water Through Vetus Muffler and Exhaust Hose
Electrical System: Alternator Charges Both Batteries.
Ventilation: Natural, Good.
Reduction Gear: Hurth
Engine Beds: F.R.P.
Drip Pan: F.R.P.
Instruments and Monitoring: Universal
Controls: Edson Cables
...
Engine Started and Ran Very Well
...
With the exception of the above I find this vessel to be in Good Structural, Mechanical and Cosmetic Condition. If vessel is provided with the proper care and maintenance and the above recommendations are met it should provide many more years of service.
And that was the SECOND surveyor that I hired!
10-01-2012 09:33 AM
Maine Sail
Re: Universal M25 losing power

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post

There are at least 7 things wrong in this picture.... Can you find them all?
I take a stab;

*Antifreeze tank "appears" mounted too low
*Fluid not filled to correct level
*Leaking RWP face plate gasket
*Leaking water seal on RWP
*Alternator adjustment arm on backwards
*Crimp fitting on non-factory temp T not heat shrunk
*Zip tie holding coolant hose is plastic (could melt)
*Poor routing of coolant hose around alternator
*Hose clamp too long
*Ground wire under alt adjustment not ideal location
*Aftermarket oil filter (larger OD) impinging on factory alternator bracket
*Alternator bracket had not been updated despite the timing gear case obviously having been replaced.
* Positive 12V wires not properly secured appears to be rubbing on the manifold
*Non-factory tee added to t-stat housing which can lead to improper flow around temp sender/alarm. Should be removed and plumbed correctly.
*Fuel hose on left should be better secured so as not to chafe on RWP
*White 12V wires on left appear to be chafing on fuel bleeder screw & air filter
*FWP, based on corrosion, appears to leak or has leaked
*PCV hose impinged and possibly pinched closed by alternator bracket
*Plastic zip ties in engine spaces are ABYC non-preferred.
*90 degree elbow on RWP can be a debris catcher and can increase head pressure
*Fuel hoses should be double clamped (does not look it but hard to tell)


Sorry I got more than 7 though some are hard to tell from the angle....
10-01-2012 09:04 AM
jameswilson29
Re: Problem solved!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
There are at least 7 things wrong in this picture.... Can you find them all?
Three that jump out are the leaking water pump gasket and rear seal, that hose crossing the alternator belt, and the ground attached to the alternator adjustment bracket bolt.

Your engine looks much better - nice job with the mounting brackets, re-routing of the hose that crossed the alternator belt, and new alternator tensioning bracket.

Tell us more...
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