SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Racing > Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7
 Not a Member? 


Thread: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7 Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
10-03-2012 08:37 AM
codysalvick
Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

I quite agree with your views.
10-03-2012 08:25 AM
codysalvick
Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

Thanks for the listing.
09-25-2012 11:37 AM
mikehoyt
Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

Please note that the list of Hi, Low, Avg numbers posted by US Sailing is only a very rough guideline. This is published from the submitted base handicap numbers by PHRF regions across North america. Not all submit every year and in some areas there is little experience with a boat compared to others where there is a large fleet. The "Average" is the Average of the area handicaps. It is not a weighted average and does not take into account that Area A has 40 of the boats and Area B only has one. "Minimum" is the submitted handicap that is the lowest number from all the areas and HIGH is the highest.

US Sailing published a reference guide that lists by boat model all the handicaps from the reported areas as well as the number of boats in that area, the year reported and the experience level with that boat.

Most of what has been stated by previous posters is accurate.

Sorry for the long post. This reminds me that I am overdue submitting numbers to US Sailing

Mike
09-25-2012 12:03 AM
paulk
Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

PHRF ratings vary because the local committees who issue the handicaps adjust them (theoretically) based on local results, which are affected by local conditions. A really heavy boat with small sails will probably not do well in an area with light wind, such as Chesapeake Bay or Long Island Sound: a light boat with big sails will tend to beat it. The local PHRF handicapping committee takes this into account when they issue a rating. In the North Sea, where 20 knots is a lull, the heavier boat will be much more competitive, as the lighter boat has to reef down, and is stopped when it hits the big waves that the heavier boat simply pushes aside. IRC ignores this obvious fact of sailboat racing by assigning a single rating to any boat, anywhere. It then pretends to be scientific and precise by extending the ratings to four decimal places, despite not actually being capable of being that accurate. (If you multiply what LOOKS like a substantial rating difference of .129 between two boats out by the time or distance involved, it comes out to be a tiiny fraction of seconds over the course of the whole race. The decimal places are meaningless in the actual determination of results. They just look REALLY cool.) Then a secret committee changes the secret IRC rule, and the owners who just spent thousands (or tens of thousands) to optimize their boat find out they can't buy trophies by tweaking the rule - they need to buy a new boat. PHRF tends to be consistently popular over a wider range of racers worldwide because it seems to work reasonably well without enabling those with the deepest pockets to buy trophies at the expense of those who sail well.
09-24-2012 11:11 AM
blt2ski
Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

Sun,

You last post is not the high, low ave. That figure is for "Time on Time" phrf figuring vs "Time on Distance" figuring.

The High, low, ave I refered to, as does the paper from US Sailing, is literally that, the highest/fastest base rating for a given boat, lowest/slowest base rating, and the ave of the 3 or more boats that need to be rated over the last 5 yrs with in the multiple area's that USS has jurisdiction in the US and Canada IIRC. This shows the variance among the different areas and how they might use the ability to have local conditions.

S Cal for example, uses three different base ratings for boats, one if doing buoy's, another if doing what will be longer races of 3-4 hrs or more by less than 24, another of doing ocean races. This allows them to hopefully handicap boats that have say running ability's at a faster time on the ocean of a race like the transpac is run, where as if that boat does not point or reach as well, allow for the slowness of those points, vs a boat that is somewhat rounded in ALL points of sail but slower in the run part.

In your case, You boat the fastest rated boat is a 9, slowest a 15, ave for all boats is 12. My boat for an example is 159, 191 and 171. Puget sound here in Wa it is 189, BC where shock is, the boat is 192, so I am a bit surprised the slowest rated is 191, unless I forgot that the BC boat is rated at 191. We also for boats rated slower than about 70 or so, artificially lower the base that is supposed to be used by 10%. This is shown to be a better way of comparing the fastest boats to the slower ones when doing overall scoring due to our weather and race conditions. Most races a windward/leeward in winds under 10 knots. So the ToT scoring is recommended the first formula, along with factors have been posted at the PHRF-NW site as such for ToT scoring.

Marty
09-24-2012 04:31 AM
thenzsea
Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

I find out the difference of PHRF low high & ave. ^^

Corrected Time = Elapsed Time * TCF
TCF = 650 / (600 + PHRF) for Low Range (Wind less 5m/s)
= 650 / (550 + PHRF) for Medium Range (Wind 5~8m/s)
= 650 / (480 + PHRF) for High Range (Wind over 8m/s)
09-24-2012 01:52 AM
thenzsea
Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

Hi Marty !

Thank you for the PHRF listing !

I'm trying to compare that with the PHRF rating in Korean.
(there are some difference about from zero point to 2 digit number)

However what's the difference between High Low and Ave PHRF?
Is it range from slow to fast one?
Which one should I adapt to?
Is it entitle to the Race commitee?

Sorry I am now learning about rating so not much know about.. ^^

Cheers

Sun KIM
09-23-2012 03:08 PM
blt2ski
Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

I'd agree, that trying to compare one system to another does not always work. Heck, Even doing PHRF ToT vs ToD can get goofy, as ToT has three wind factor ratings. Final time splits between boats stays the same, but the Zero boat for lack of better term changes, from around 140, to 80 to 20 tween the light 0-7 vs med 8-15 vs heavy 15+. Zero boat meaning those slower get time taken off, vs faster adding time.

Marty
09-23-2012 03:08 AM
SchockT
Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

ORC is very different from PHRF, and there doesn't seem to be a direct conversion between the two, but I can't explain how ORC works. When the conversation changes to handicap systems, my eyes glaze over and I go looking for another rum!
09-22-2012 09:27 PM
blt2ski
Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

I would agree, that SA is probably better. But being as PHRF is most widely used in the states vs irc. So not sure how to change out from PHR ratings to IRC...so

your boat hi, lo ave phrf is 9, 15, 12
GS44r, no 42r listed, 12, 12, 12
syd 41 18, 18, 18
Swan 45 -18, -6, -12
Trip 41, 43od 6,9,6

You can look at the complete listing here
http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets...+Handicaps.pdf

Marty
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:32 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.