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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok
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Thread: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-26-2013 02:51 PM
Capt.aaron
Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I did not know that a rigging company that rigs sailboats can be licensed. I did an internet search and finding nothing that indicates boat riggers can be licensed. Can you provide a link that shows how it is done or a link to a licensed rigger? I do not think even Brian Toss is licensed.
Regards
You don't get a "rigging" lisence. You get a business lisence. In order to do lisensed business as a rigger you need insurance. In order to get insured you need to prove you are worth the risk to the company. It's like when I got my charter boat insurance. I had to prove I was insurable. You can how ever become a surveyor, which includes rigging fatigue in it's carriculum. Also, in my current feild, you get a rigging certification in order to be qauilifed to work the decks of commercial tugs and anchor handlers. This rigging includes crane operation and the like. Sail boat rigging, standing and running, are speacialized. This skill is realy only aquired through working at a rig shop. Florida Hydraulic and rigging, Sailing Services in Miami, places like that. I was trained by a guy who learned first from puting together and flying Heliocopters. I then worked on a traditonally rigged tall ship, and then was subsequently hired by a sail boat rigger. It all boils down, in regards to standing rigging, terminal end's and wire. We say 15 years on wire and it depends on the terminal end. If it's sta-lock, than almost forever, and if it's rotory swage, about the same as wire. To split the difference cost wise we usually suggest swage on top and sta-lock on the bottom. I went sta-lock top and bottom on mine. My 1x19 wire is 15 years old and about ready to change out. I just sailed to Honduras from Fla. and kept my eye on the wire, checking for broken strands. But I digress as usual. Check a riggers reputation, and work history. His insurance and business lisence, and then decide in talking to him weather or not you deam him Professional or not for your self.
06-26-2013 02:50 PM
casey1999
Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
I assume he meant a contractor's license or business license - meaning a legitimate business.

The underlying point here is someone who regularly engages in a particular trade or business has far more experience and expertise in a particular area, which would allow that person to offer a more valuable opinion on that subject than the know-it-alls on this forum, whose answer to every question is to buy more shizzle or spend more shizzle out of an overabundance of caution and ignorance.

Many of these older production boats had oversized masts and rigging, far stronger than the current crop of boat-show boats. If his professional rigger said it is o.k., then it is likely o.k. I would rely on the expert opinion of his rigger, who actually examined the rigging, over the non-expert opinion of the posters on Sailnet.
I agree with you for the most part.

I am a licensed professional mechanical engineer. I have licenses in Maryland and Hawaii, and would be able to get licensed in any state with an application. To get licensed I needed a mechanical engineering degree, 4 years experience working under a licensed mechanical engineer, and needed to pass two tests totaling 16 hours given by the state of maryland.

In my work I deal with all kinds of equipment from commercial air conditioning systems to maintenace of guyed anntennas over 1,000 feet tall.

Most of the trades people I deal with are not formally licensed, but could be considered professionals as they get paid to do what they do. Some should be considered experts. But the problem I see is these professionals are right 98% of the time. It is the 2% of the time they get it wrong because they do no have a good foundation for understanding what they are doing. One of my jobs is to "catch" this 2% and not let slip by. As in most of life, it would be uneconomical to educate these trades people to cover that 2% where they make incorrect descisions. It most cases, the 2% where they get it wrong is not a life or death situation, it only has economic impact.

However, I think your rig on your sailboat is critical. It could be life or death when it falls down and hits someone, or it could be life or death if you can not sail to make it to port. I think we need a formal licensing program to be considered a "Professional Rigger".
06-26-2013 02:26 PM
jameswilson29
Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

I assume he meant a contractor's license or business license - meaning a legitimate business.

The underlying point here is someone who regularly engages in a particular trade or business has far more experience and expertise in a particular area, which would allow that person to offer a more valuable opinion on that subject than the know-it-alls on this forum, whose answer to every question is to buy more shizzle or spend more shizzle out of an overabundance of caution and ignorance.

Many of these older production boats had oversized masts and rigging, far stronger than the current crop of boat-show boats. If his professional rigger said it is o.k., then it is likely o.k. I would rely on the expert opinion of his rigger, who actually examined the rigging, over the non-expert opinion of the posters on Sailnet.
06-26-2013 02:24 PM
mark2gmtrans
Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Maybe they have a business license, I would be more interested in knowing if they were bonded and insured. If an insurance company will stand behind them against damages and injuries then I would say I would be prepared to trust them a lot more than someone without those qualifications.

Just me, but when a company will put a few million dollars behind a product or service it gives me a bit of confidence.
06-26-2013 02:15 PM
casey1999
Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
I don't know. I worked for a Lisenced and insured rigging company based out of Miami. I was paid to install and inspect rigging. I left the company and started my own business in Key West. People paid me to inspect and install rigging. I supose by definition I was a professional rigger for a time. They have classes at our local community college on the subject. I guess, the lisence and insurance coupled with the experience, usually gained by working for a reputable rigging company as an apprentice for a while would make some one a professional.
I did not know that a rigging company that rigs sailboats can be licensed. I did an internet search and finding nothing that indicates boat riggers can be licensed. Can you provide a link that shows how it is done or a link to a licensed rigger? I do not think even Brian Toss is licensed.
Regards
06-26-2013 10:47 AM
Capt.aaron
Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
What is a "professional riggier"? Does he/she have a degree?, How many years of experience? How many boats have they worked without a rig failure?, How many boats have they worked and have had a rig failure? What kind of "certification" or licenses do they have?

Is there such thing as a "professional rigger"?

I know of some riggers that should be considered professional like Brian Toss and John Koon, but many that consider themselves "professionals", are probably not.
I don't know. I worked for a Lisenced and insured rigging company based out of Miami. I was paid to install and inspect rigging. I left the company and started my own business in Key West. People paid me to inspect and install rigging. I supose by definition I was a professional rigger for a time. They have classes at our local community college on the subject. I guess, the lisence and insurance coupled with the experience, usually gained by working for a reputable rigging company as an apprentice for a while would make some one a professional.
06-25-2013 02:48 PM
casey1999
Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
I would accept the opinion of the professional rigger.
What is a "professional riggier"? Does he/she have a degree?, How many years of experience? How many boats have they worked without a rig failure?, How many boats have they worked and have had a rig failure? What kind of "certification" or licenses do they have?

Is there such thing as a "professional rigger"?

I know of some riggers that should be considered professional like Brian Toss and John Koon, but many that consider themselves "professionals", are probably not.
06-25-2013 02:11 PM
jameswilson29
Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by tominny View Post
I just had a professional rigger inspect the lower parts and he said it is fine and does not need replacement.
I would accept the opinion of the professional rigger.
06-25-2013 01:06 PM
MarkofSeaLife
Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

If the boat is 35 years old, or from 1968, whatever... the cost of replacing standing rigging would be a large percentage of the value of the boat.

Mine done in St Martin was $750 for forestay, 1,500 twin backs, $350 inners, $750 outters... total $4,500 plus yardage. Fine for me, I cruise oceans. But for a boat that does coastal cruising, day tripping its a lot. I wouldnt have it replaced.
06-25-2013 11:47 AM
seabreeze_97
Re: 35 year old standing rigging - but rigger says it's ok

Seeing a lotta talk about age and corrosion. I skipped over some so if I'm repeating someone else, apologies. It seems the salient point should be this inescapable FACT. Metal fatigues. Rigging only one season old, but raced or worked hard, but still clean and shiny, is much older in terms of fatigue than a 10 year old rig that has spent life doing casual weekend cruises. There are averages. This is why there's a cut off after so many years for the typical cruiser. There's always some stress, even dockside. Sooner or later it's coming down. It's up to you as to when that is.
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