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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Electrical Systems > Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block
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Thread: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-29-2012 05:15 PM
Capt. Gary Randall
Re: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block

i'm not angry, I can't figure out how to get rid of it,is on all my posts recently.there was plenty of emotions going on earlier when I got rid of them the fireman came....... I guess I need to stay on Google whenever I post on SailNet whenever I use my other browser weird things happen including on chat turning into a really long story was one word on every sentence???? not trying to steal your threat or change it, lesson learned don't change browsers....
09-29-2012 04:55 PM
L124C
Re: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Gary Randall View Post
Hello to all, The link that I left on post four was merely my way of trying to help someone out. If you click on the link you will notice that goes directly to e-mail. This is a very helpful site when you have difficult questions or simply just need a wiring diagram. I have no intentions of sending business to anyone else or myself. In the future I'll try not to leave any more links to be helpful. CaptG ps. I am in the business of boat delivery, I do this through my reputation for over 45 years, I am not on SailNet to get business I am here for recreational purposes because I really enjoy it here!!!!!!! since I've been on SailNet I've had one offer to deliver a boat from North Carolina the Chesapeake Bay. I did not take that offer........
It never occurred to me that you were doing anything but trying to help me, and I sincerely appreciate that. However, I agree with Stu in #13, that the value of these forums is that everyone shares ideas and information. If I had something of a personal nature, or that might not be of interest to the Forum, I would have emailed you (though I still wouldn't know how to phrase the question any other way). The "link" in post 4 is a email address, not a link to a website. Enough with the flaming emoticon, you have nothing to be angry about!
09-29-2012 04:41 PM
Stu Jackson
Re: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block

Yes, but it requires two steps, besides avoiding clicking on your offered link which only goes to email: 1) figure out that you really meant to do a www.xxx; 2) type the link into your browser.

THIS would have been a LOT easier: Mobile marine repairs and yacht maintenance in south florida

It's kinda the "etiquette" for providing links that actually GO somewhere useful right away.

I've found, over the years, that even if I post "easy" links, many folks don't read 'em, but at least making it as easy as possible helps others.
09-29-2012 01:02 PM
Capt. Gary Randall
Re: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block

I would like to suggest that your Google the address that I left on my post. I will bet it takes you to some very informative information.
09-29-2012 11:59 AM
Stu Jackson
Re: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Gary Randall View Post
If you click on the link you will notice that goes directly to e-mail. This is a very helpful site when you have difficult questions or simply just need a wiring diagram.

In the future I'll try not to leave any more links to be helpful.
Gary, sending folks links to other email "connections" kinda defeats the purpose of these kinds of forums. It's like suggesting that you have an answer but using email or pms, where the end result is that respondents to the topic never get to see the answers! Think of the unforeseen consequences of trying to be helpful.

Links, on the other hand, are quite helpful if they go to other topics on this or other forums where the answer is actually presented. Many of us use useful links to simply avoid retyping the same answers to the same questions to help different people. An example is Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams.

Like these, for example (I have posted these many, many times):

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowner...d.php?t=137615

Please keep contributing, Gary, but understand how these forums work.

Thanks.
09-28-2012 02:00 PM
Capt. Gary Randall
Re: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block

Hello to all, The link that I left on post four was merely my way of trying to help someone out. If you click on the link you will notice that goes directly to e-mail. This is a very helpful site when you have difficult questions or simply just need a wiring diagram. I have no intentions of sending business to anyone else or myself. In the future I'll try not to leave any more links to be helpful. CaptG ps. I am in the business of boat delivery, I do this through my reputation for over 45 years, I am not on SailNet to get business I am here for recreational purposes because I really enjoy it here!!!!!!! since I've been on SailNet I've had one offer to deliver a boat from North Carolina the Chesapeake Bay. I did not take that offer........
09-27-2012 03:59 PM
fairbank56
Re: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf38 View Post
I consider it safe to assume that when someone says ground, especially in a DC system they mean return, or in this case battery (-).
That might be what they are refering to but that's technically incorrect. They are not the same as clearly stated in ABYC rules, "DC grounding systems shall not be used as a return conductor".

Stan Honey seems to be confused as well in the marine grounding systems article. He states "we need a DC ground or return line" as if they are the same thing and then, when defining ground, he goes on to say "never use the mast, engine, or other metal object as part of the return circuit". Why? Because they are ground, not DC return. Two different things.

The boats DC ground system wiring should not normally be conducting current as the DC negative/return/grounded wiring does.

Eric
09-27-2012 01:33 PM
L124C
Re: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf38 View Post
Fair. But I'm still not sure which one he was asking about. I consider it safe to assume that when someone says ground, especially in a DC system they mean return, or in this case battery (-). I also suspect this text was trying to lay out what ground is in a general sense which blurs the lines between earth, return, (-) etc.
I (and I think, Botherton) was referring to the battery-motor Neg connection. He begins the paragraph with: "GROUND refers to a connection made to the earth itself"....(paraphrasing)"On land, through a pipe driven into the ground, on our boats, ultimately to Seawater". He goes on to say that ideally (and by ABYC recommendation): "Each item in the circuit is connected by its own pair of wires and the common ground carries no load current." (except on my boat on which I now realize, it completes the circuit for the Alt. and Starter!).
Anyway, I was specifically asking how GROUND "will supply all (charge) we need". (My boat notwithstanding!)
09-27-2012 12:06 PM
Maine Sail
Re: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
Started this thread regarding Shunts:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electr...unts-work.html
A issue I solved there prompted me to research the Battery/Ground relationship. The book; The 12 Volt Bible For Boats, by Miner Brotherton states:

"Ground is considered to be either an infinite "sink" or an infinite "source" for charge. That means if we have an excess of charge, ground will take all we can give it. If we have a deficiency of charge, ground will supply us with all we need."

I think I understand the "sink", meaning ground gives excessive charge some where to dissipate. However, I do not understand how ground supplies us with all the charge we need. If my alternator fails (for example), ground ain't going to help me, right?
Can someone explain what Botherton means?
There is a lot at play here:

Wiring batteries to the engine block is required with case grounded starters and alternators or there is an incomplete circuit. On some boats, such as metal hulls, the starter can be only momentarily connected via solenoid then disconnected and the alternator is isolated ground.

There are four main things at play:

Lightning grounding (earth potential non current carrying)
Dissimilar metals bonding (earth potential non current carrying)
Negative DC current carrying conductors
AC grounding



There is a difference between "grounded" and "grounding".


DC Negative Conductor (grounded conductor) = Black OR Yellow (Yellow is ABYC preferred but black still acceptable)

DC Grounding Conductor = Green or Green W/Yellow stripe. This is for AC and DC GROUNDING or EARTHING and is not for negative return conductors. DC grounding is optional on the DC side unless you are wiring an inverter or charger and then the case needs to be earthed with green or green/yellow tracer. Bonding wires and lightning grounding also use green for earthing...

Your boat is attached to "Earth" for safety reasons or to help minimize corrosion. Your inboard engine is connected to the batteries to complete the starter, fuel pump or alternator circuits unless other means of connecting the neg conductors to the battery exists. With a DC only system you can have a system totally isolated from Earth, as many small OB powered sailboats do, but Earthing the boat somewhere is normally preferred and this spot is most often the engine on inboard sailboats..
09-27-2012 11:49 AM
mitiempo
Re: Grounding Batteries to Eng. Block

Here is a link to the best article I have come across about grounding - by Stan Honey.

Grounding

Well worth reading.
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