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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Electrical Systems > HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
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Thread: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-12-2012 10:41 AM
chucklesR
Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install

I stopped by the booth at the Naptown boat show - the 160 and 180 amp set ups do have a floating tension 'thingy' depending on the engine model you are installing it on.

That's the end of my technical know how.

BTW, I did not get offered a discount for mentioning your name MS
10-11-2012 02:24 PM
hellosailor
Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install

And here I thought the last "new" technology in small motors/gensets was the rare earth magnets used in the old lunar rover, that kickstarted the whole cordless drill business.

So you figure the existing cases are too thin, too critical, for someone to run 'em by the machine shop and flute them? Or to have have someone in China knock off a fluted version? I know, every installation is tight but an awful lot of 'em have enough room to go another 5-10mm fatter. I'm suspecting "no one wants anything except cheap" applies, and the exceptions to that are the folks who're quite wiling to just buy a big Balmar.
10-11-2012 09:21 AM
Maine Sail
Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Something I have to wonder about, is that alternator bodies are never fluted. In theory, if you're going to bother with your own castings, you could flute the whole body in order to get a huge increase in heat shedding, which should translate into a huge gain in alternator output as it heats up.

Looks like a nice setup though.
I have to guess because:

#1 The alts are built to fit "existing" locations which may be very tight. I have some that literally clear by 1-2 mm's...

#2 They are, no matter how "custom" they claim they are, built on existing "industry" case sizes & offsets. While companies like Balmar and E-Maax do cast their own cases the case is basically a replica of Delco 130D, 10DN, 10SI, 12SI, Motorolla, J-200 etc. etc...


There are some new technologies coming that will drastically boost the capability of a small case alt but it is still a year or two out..
10-08-2012 02:21 AM
hellosailor
Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install

Very nice machining, and sadly this is the kind of job any local machine shop used to be able to do. I'd be somewhat concerned about letting the new pulleys go a year without anodizing. We had a custom pulley made up some years ago and because of time constraints, just ran it bare. Literally found oxides on it within ONE WEEK on the mooring. I'm guessing Electromaxx has chosen an alloy specially for the purpose, rather than "What do you have that's about a half inch thick?"

I'd only disagree with calling that a serpentine belt. AFAIK that's just a RIBBED belt and it doesn't change to "serpentine" until the belt winds in and out, and requires a tensioning wheel to make it stay put. If simple tension will hold it--that's just a ribbed belt.

I'd be curious to hear what some belt makers had to say about the pros and cons of using more smaller ribs, as the Jason belt does, instead of larger ribs like common automotive belts. More machining on the pulleys, or more expensive knives to cut the pulleys? Versus thicker wider belts that would cost more to make, but might last longer? I get the feeling there are some unobvious engineering tradeoffs there and can't help wonder. But hey, wtf, if you need a belt in some odd spot like Beaufort or Pitcairn Island...you know what they used to say about Landrover? Doesn't matter where you are, in town or in the bush, it will still take one week to express a part to you. Good idea to carry multiple spares.

Something I have to wonder about, is that alternator bodies are never fluted. In theory, if you're going to bother with your own castings, you could flute the whole body in order to get a huge increase in heat shedding, which should translate into a huge gain in alternator output as it heats up.

Looks like a nice setup though.
10-05-2012 11:07 AM
chucklesR
Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install

Dang it. I had MMR read this article.

Now I've got to add a 180amp HO from Electromaxx to my budget.

The good news is I was already looking at a 100 amp from Balmar - and the cost is actually not that much more for JUST the alt, the pulley kit adds a couple hundred but don't break the bank all things considered.

MS, you wanna install it this weekend in your copious off time?
Just kidding, boat not at the pier yet.
10-05-2012 10:51 AM
Maine Sail
Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install

Sorry guys I should have written that portion more clearly. The size them to never move "down" in flow and keep the "up" within manufacturers spec. The engine manufacturers are consulted on the allowed overage. More flow is better then too little yet the goal is to size for no more than a 2-3% difference in "more" flow...
10-04-2012 07:33 AM
Minnewaska
Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonSink62 View Post
Great article!

One question: If the crank pulley becomes a little oversized and the water pump pulley stays the same, the water pump shaft spins a little faster; would that be a problem? or is the difference too small to worry about?
Agreed, this is once again an outstanding documentary by MaineSail.

I had this same question when reading the article. Presumably, if the standard kits slips a pulley over the crank pulley, this is a common issue.

Its the part of the article that says fitting a new pulley over the water pulley would change the flow characteristics that might want a tweak. It seems the new crank pulley is already doing that, so you would think you would want a different dimensioned water pump pulley to compensate.
10-04-2012 07:23 AM
Minnewaska
Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
Nigel also had something very interesting to say about new technologies coming soon.

He believes that PMDC motors/alternators being perfected in the automotive industry will soon yield products for boaters which will provide extremely high capacity alternators at reasonable prices......
This will be terrific and I'm sure there are many electronic advancements on the horizon. The racing industry is heavily involved in this research. If you can imagine a battery powered Indy or Nascar, sailors needs are easy.

I'm guessing that high output alternators require more than just a way to make them less expensive. They also need to be substantially more efficient in order for our relatively low horsepower engines to turn them.

I'm a bit suspicious of the economic for boaters, however. There are probably more hybrid cars on the road today than there are boating customers that would buy these upgrades and hybrid technology remains very expensive.
10-04-2012 03:45 AM
chef2sail
Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install

Great article and explanation.

We outfitted Haleakula with an
80 amp Electromax.largest which would fit in the engine space..no serpentine though. The bulk charge at idle or low rpm is over 60 amps vrs the old Hitachi -25, or a Bamar 600 series -40. We rarely allow our bank of 720 ah under 450 ( roughly 5days without engine) . At running speed 2700 rpm the eMaax puts out 83 amps at 77 degrees. We can get back to 80% (575) usually in 1.5 hours of motoring. Have noticed that the alternator also runs 30 degrees cooler than previous Hitachi. Love it's dual fans. I knows it's somewhat undersized so we are getting at least one large photo cell to help. We spend enough time at dock keeping them topped off too.

I got the electromax at MS recommendation and have been very happy with it.
10-03-2012 09:01 PM
chucklesR
Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install

Thanks for the response MS.

I'm going to have to add a HO alt to my to do list, and my budget.
The bank will be flooded's - I've had my fill of AGM's already.

I think my 44hp should handle it.

Btrafors, I've read the write up from Calder's presentation, that's why I'm looking at 3x240w solar panels just for my 500ah bank. I'd go bigger but it just won't fit.
Keep in mind those 500a alt's will suck HP from the prop. Better have a switch to kill them.
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