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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > First Boat for Learning
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-01-2006 12:50 PM
Giulietta Cam, MERRY CHRISTMAS to you too, and to your family.

We don't have baseball over here, or (your) football, but I think I understood you. I believe you were talking about kids that do it for the love of it as opposed to those that do it for the love of their parents, am I right?? (you have to excuse me but sometimes your English (and others here) is a little too good for me, maybe sometimes you have to write somewhat simpler for me. I get it but I have to read it many times, LOL, please, not your fault, its MY fault, ok? I'm the one on an english spoken site).

Anyway, I believe that, that too, is "mother nature" selecting the good from the bad, look at the Brasilians, those that are best in soccer, played with SOCKS!!!!!!!!!!! because couln't afford a ball!!!

What I see, (but maybe I am wrong) really is all the chances and opportunities that USA kids have to material and clubs (that we don't have) and don't get used in the end. All this started because I just noted that there were a lot of "older" guys starting to learn. That is good too, better late than never, I guess.

By the way, I used to race 470's when I was 15 / 16, and haven't touched one since.
A few weeks ago, I asked at the club where my son sails, to take one of their 420's for a ride!!! So I called a friend, (also an old guy, but much uglyer than me!!!) , and we went sailing on it!! Now that was fun. They gave us an 1970's 420 (just in case we wouln't come back) and we rigged it in front of all the kids while they laughed at the old farts that were going to get killed!!

Well, as soon as me and my very very very ugly friend , left the marina, they all came to see, very quietly, we raised the Spinnaker, made a few runs, and actually beat some of the kids!!! They started respecting us after that day.Keep in mind that ugly , never sailed on a 420 before, he sailed Snipes and Vauriens!!

So all I can say, is that kids now know how to go fast, by we still know our away around better, so we don't have to go fast!!!!

Some other time I will tell you how I sailed for half hour on a 49er, and couldn't move for 2 days!!!! (maybe I should talk about the 49er because I am sure someone here will want to sail one to the caribbean for a 2 year cruise!!!)
12-01-2006 12:08 PM
camaraderie Giuletta...I don't think there is much change in US youth sailing participation over the years...it has always been a VERY minor segment of activity and if anything, US youth are less active now in all sports than prior to the computer/TVgame age. One trend I have noticed here is that the sports activities of US youth are now much more highly organized and better athletes get much more intense and specialized training early on. The downside of this is that there is no more informal kids games and for lack of a better word "play". If it isn't "organized" it doesn't happen which is why I think that even in something as American as baseball...foreigners who play daily as kids in their home countries for the love of the game are displacing Americans who get driven to their game of the week by Mom!
Kids taking sailboats out daily and becoming good sailors by being on the water constantly are few and far between.
12-01-2006 09:00 AM
Giulietta Cam, CP, Bob,

Thank you, based on your posts about the simplicty of making a web page, I will soon start a page where I explain everything, (I am going to talk to a friend that knows these Internet things), I will show why I took some decisions, why I decided on that type of boat, construction photos etc. etc. And the 3500 photos will be there. From Gelcoat on the mould (can't call it laying the keel, can I?? the keel was installed 2 days befor it went on the water!!) to 17kts (the fastest I got on it so far).

As for the explanation why it changed, well, it changed everywhere, not only in the USA, its that simple. Even in my 10 million people, Indiana size Country kids rather play Playstation (I had to install one on my boat so Fred can play when we aren't sailing) than do other activities, its the result of globalization, internet, increased costs of life, etc... more and more people have less time for their kids. I understand all that.

Still, over here, most schools have sailing available (obviously with the help of sailing clubs), and its made cheap for them, and I see more boats on the water now with kids than we had in 1980.
By the way we don't pay for school. (unless you want the kid in a private school, that are generaly worse than public), And that could also be a difference. Also because sailing clubs are public (not commercialy orientated) and don't make that much money, some of the boats are really old....

Funny is that every Saturday I take my Son Fred to his sailing club (Clube Naval de Lisboa), where he races Optimists, and there is a row of proud dads, all "tweeking" their kids boats. They also sail, but that day, no sail. So don't you think that we are also not cooperating??

What I do sometimes is drive him to the club at 10am, when he starts training, drive home, pick up my wife and sail to where he sails. At 5pm he is done with his training, his coach brings him to us on his power inflatable and the 4 (the baby allways comes along) of us sail back home. Arriving at night. We stay together that way.

I see what you are saying, and understand. One question, do you guys feel that in 1975, or 1980, were there more kids sailing in USA than today? That way, we can see if the age of sailing changed because of the time or not. I hope.
11-30-2006 11:15 PM
jones2r Giulietta,

Maybe we'll just have to be satisfied with your keeping us up to date with your adventures posted on SailNet, with lots of PICTURES. I can surely appreciate the time factor. But don't believe people aren't looking. Your teak project attracted a lot more attention than the viewers are letting on to. You have a boat that is attracting a lot of attention. Figure that most folks are mostly interested in writing about their own boats and adventures. Yours may be a little intimidating. You've attracted C_Paul's attention, and he's on his better behavior in your company.

Paul has alluded to American culture as not being conducive to the enjoyment of life as it should be (my words). We have been taught to be mesmerized by the illusion of commercial life. We do not have the deeply ingrained cultural values that Europeans have, those that the European Economic Union will subjugate given the opportunity (and it will try). Americans did not have the necessary insight to see the dissolution when it happened in this country over the past century. Now, the American children do not know that what is important is not available to them. The educational system, working mothers, the profit-maximizing business environment putting workers on the street, essentially the exportation of the U.S. economy, have all served to make the American citizen an economic serf who is in constant fear of losing the ability to support his family. Liberty, the freedom for self-direction and the fundamental on which this country was founded, is no longer present here. People here do what they feel is expected of them, not as they would wish to do; this is the freedom that has been lost. I hope that the Europeans understand what has happened here and do not let it happen there.

Enough of my self-professed wisdom. Only the Lord knows what I've invited upon myself here!

Bob
11-30-2006 10:32 PM
camaraderie Yah Giuletta... I was just paying a little compliment to the little country with such a great BIG soccer history. Unlike most Americans....I love it...but will drop the subject here!
I'm not sure if the web page idea is worth your time...but if you want to do one there are lots of places on-line that will let you put it up for free. Sail-net has a blog space too if you just want to do something simple.

I've gotten a couple of articles published (LattsAtts & Bluewater Sailing) over the years on technical subjects but unless you are an advertiser, I think it is pretty tough to break in with a boat review unless it is really something unique. They only review 1 or 2 boats a month and they have to keep the advertisers happy.

Well...it is December already in Portugal so I'll close with:
Feliz Natal!
11-30-2006 09:53 PM
cardiacpaul Giulietta,

a webpage is simpler than it looks for a first shot, you could always write it up with MSWord and "save as" HTML it'll even put the photos in the right spot for you.

As far as "why" we americans don't take it up earlier, I agree with Cam. Lots of choices and the "ohh look, something shiny" mentality. If th kiddo's are on the water (most are not) they're looking for flashy graphics, big noise, rooster tails and thongs. Nothing wrong with those either come to think about it.
11-30-2006 09:09 PM
Giulietta Jones2R,

I have been thinking lately about making a web page and putting all in there, from day one, design chalenges, etc. this would be great specially because we will soon start racing her, and it would be nice to have a page for it.

However, I was told that you also need al lot of time to make that, and believe it or not I don't even know how you make a web page. (guess it never interested me that much to the point of asking someone). Also you need time to maintain it???

As for the article, if someone asked I would probably think about it, but my problems are: How to write it, I don't think my English would be correct, what to write, the structure, and most important, TIME. I don't think Sailnet would be intersted.

Also I don't think people would be THAT interested. (I have already seen YOU are !!!).

About writing.

I used to buy SAIL magazine, until it started not interesting me, and one day, as the boat was almost finished (she was launched in May 2006, and I started using her 1st August 2006 , and we are still tweeking), I wrote to the I believe then Editor, Tom Cunliffe, because me and the Builder wanted to publish about it (good business for him) and explained about this custom racer/disguised as cruiser, we were building and how different it was and he just said in polite words, "take a hike" !! So I just let it go.
11-30-2006 08:24 PM
jones2r Cam,

After talking to Mark M. it did occur to me there was a reason for your recommending the Com-Pac. As for his estimation of boat size, figure that the owner of an IP44 is mass intensive. I was hoping for some commentary regarding his assessment. Thanks.

Giulietta,

I'm not going anywhere except to a new thread; the new one is a different subject listed under Gear & Maintenance.

Regarding the age thing, when I was younger I had the opportunity to sail in the Miami, Florida, area. However, living inland, lake sailing (poor wind in this area) never really appealed to me. With retirement, I'll be relocating to a coastal area and anticipate enjoying sailing again.

I have been having thoughts about how nice it would be for us to have an article on SailNet about your boat, including a lot of pictures. Don't know if you would have the time or the inclination, and maybe I'm just being selfish suggesting it.

Regards to you both,
Bob
11-30-2006 06:25 PM
Giulietta Cam, it took a little to understand the Figo thing, as I was reading English, on a Sail site, and for seconds I couldn't figure out what you're saying!!!!

Anyway, I am PROBABLY the only Portuguese that absolutely hates Soccer, but proud of my Country being the 4th best in the World!!!

We have very good athletes in other sports that don't even have money to travel to the Olympics!!!! And soccer players get flown in private jets, stay at5 star hotels and mega Euro (dolar) pay cheques!!! I hate that.

Do you know that Portugal makes the best racing Kayaks in the World (NELO), and the Portuguese kayak team has to rent kayaks wherever they go, because they can't afford the freight costs!!???!!

Ahhhhh, please Cam, talk about anything, except soccer...

By the way, where we docked in south Portugal during the holidays, Figo owns a big restaurant called "7", and he goes there frequentely. I will promise that next time I will go there I will get an autograph for you!
11-30-2006 06:15 PM
camaraderie Jones...now you know why I recommended the Com-pac! I will disagree with the instructor about the harbor itself. Most days it is just fine for something like the Alerion but it just isn't that big an area and there is little of interest so you really need to go outside to have sailing fun. Maybe the lake ain't such a bad place to start.

Giuletta...there are lots of sailing schools here and lots of fleet racing for the kiddies in Optimists etc. in almost every decent sailing area. But...American kids have lots of other choices and only a very small percentage go sailing. A lot of people here graduate to sailboats as adults after taking a cruise with friends or messing around with motor boats and noticing the sailboats don't pull up to the gas pumps quite so often!
Say hi to Figo and Ronaldo for me!
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