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  Topic Review (Newest First)
1 Week Ago 12:24 AM
rbrasi
Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Welp, I broke out the Stays'l, put some 3/8" sheets on it, used a pendant and shackle to attach it to a car on the foredeck track and hoisted away! This is what it looked like with the 125 up front.
[IMG][/IMG]
As you can see, I was close hauled, with very light wind. Difficult to tell whether it provided any more lift. One thing I did learn is that, like a spinnaker, it will require a foredeck crew to handle. I put this up single handed in a protected marina without much difficulty. The only issue was tacking with the Genny out. Note to self- furl up the Genny before tacking with the stays'l out. Single handing is a bitch sometimes.
1 Week Ago 09:32 PM
Loki9
Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

It's safe to run it that way, nothing else is needed. Tension the backstay as needed to keep the foresail(s) luffs from sagging off to leeward. Checkstays that run to the hounds could be added for extra support if you plan to sail in winds over 20kts a lot. The penalty for not having checkstays is foresails sagging to leeward and thus less pointing ability.
1 Week Ago 04:54 PM
albrazzi
Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbrasi View Post
So, while rummaging through my storage, I've found what seems to be a wire luff Stays'l. I connected the head to the stays'l halyard, the tack to a car on the foredeck and hoisted it. You can see in the picture that it does look like a stays'l. But, with no baby stay, is this safe to run this way? or should the halyard be run along the luff, through a turning block and back up? Not sure my halyard is long enough for that. Anyway, is the thin wire in the luff enough to support this in a strong wind? I've had this boat six years and until now never even considered this!
That's not what a baby stay does, what you are talking about are running backstays. With the main up there is some support there but I will wait for more experience to speak up. Do you have signs of runners?

I should have said Check stays, not running backs.
1 Week Ago 02:19 PM
rbrasi
Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

So, while rummaging through my storage, I've found what seems to be a wire luff Stays'l. I connected the head to the stays'l halyard, the tack to a car on the foredeck and hoisted it. You can see in the picture that it does look like a stays'l. But, with no baby stay, is this safe to run this way? or should the halyard be run along the luff, through a turning block and back up? Not sure my halyard is long enough for that. Anyway, is the thin wire in the luff enough to support this in a strong wind? I've had this boat six years and until now never even considered this!
03-13-2017 08:16 AM
capecodda
Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Out of the 5 boats we owned, 2 had staysails. One with a detachable forestay, the other with the staysail on a roller.

IMHO, initially at least, don't make this complicated. The main benefit is heavy wind. When the wind pipes up, you want to get as much of the effort concentrated in the middle of the boat so it balances. The sail on the front of the boat is trying to force the boat to turn down wind. The sail on the back of the boat is trying to make it turn into the wind. When these 2 forces are relatively balanced, the rudder doesn't work too hard, the effort you need to place on the tiller or wheel is right, and the boat doesn't end up on its ear.

So the normal drill is, the wind pipes up, take down (or roll up the genoa), reef the mainsail, and deploy the staysail.


Yea, I know, in some situations it makes sense to run both of the forward sails, but try this first. It works great. First time you sail upwind, into 35 kts true, and are comfortable, you'll really like this having a staysail, especially with when your friends with big genoa's are hanging on their moorings.

Good luck, sounds like a great setup.
03-13-2017 12:30 AM
RichH
Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Arvel Gentry died several years ago (2013) and his family has apparently elected to not continue his website. Further, the TOG (Tayana Owners Group) ftp website has also been abandoned several years ago, although ftp data is still 'up'.

There was some discussion of capturing most of Arvel Gentry's for repository/archive publication here at Sailnet .... didn't happen. Would have been a most valued resource.

Here's probably the only currently reliable still active link(s) for Gentry's works on sail aerodynamics (based in Spanish Language but the articles remain in Englisch): https://arvelgentry.jimdo.com/articles/ I dont know how long this website will remain active. It doesnt contain all the 'important' Gentry articles, especially the correct treatises that explain on a strictly aero-technical basis of how wings/sails 'actually' work ... as opposed to the foolishness of what one reads in high school general science courses and 'how to sail' books.
Its really quite sad that ultimately all of these seminal Arvel Gentry articles on 'how sails work' ... based on actual aerodynamics (actual aerodynamic field effect plotting) are slowly becoming lost. Very very sad.
03-12-2017 05:32 PM
Barquito
Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Thanks for the update. I'm not a expert in hydrodynamic physics, so, was trying to figure out how rice cooking and the slot effect are related.

BTW, welcome to Sailnet.
03-12-2017 05:23 PM
sailnc
Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

For the benefit of anyone who, like me, went to the link shown above for the staysail info and found it pointing to a German-language site about rice cooking, here is a link to the PDF we wanted:

w w w .
f t p .
tognews.
com/Publications/Arvel%20Gentry%20Articles/07_The_Double_Head_Rig.pdf

I had to corrupt the URL because I don't have enough posts credited to my username to be allowed to post links.... argh...! All these rules!!
Just remove the obvious spaces and line breaks.. hope this works!!
Tom
10-11-2012 01:14 PM
RichH
Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Oops, forgot the 'important' stuff.
Use a full set of tell tales on all the sails, trim the staysl as per the leech tell tales ...... then final 'trim' in/out and to set best proximity to the headsail ..... and adjust that in/out according to your SPEEDO or VMG.
You get the 'best' interaction adjusting the slot-distance between the stay'sl and head'sl using the SPEEDO ... and you probably wont see much change in the tell tale flow.
10-11-2012 12:59 PM
kjzerr
Re: Staysail: Purpose and trimming

Thank you everyone! Very useful information! I will check out the articles. jsaronson and macswift: since the boat was designed specifically for racing, your explanations make sense. Thanks again.
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