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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > ICW from VA to FL
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-20-2012 09:49 AM
wingNwing
Re: ICW from VA to FL

Hey Jon, can you provide the link to the above chart? I can't find it on their website. Thx.


Never mind, found what I needed here: http://www7320.nrlssc.navy.mil/global_nlom32/gfs.html
10-20-2012 09:29 AM
JonEisberg
Re: ICW from VA to FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
1500 heads out past the Gulfstream, is that what you are doing?
Last couple of years, the strategy of most of the 1500 fleet has been to run down the coast to Hatteras, and cross the Stream there. Not necessarily a bad way to go, but I've always thought it still takes some real cojones on the part of the rally organizers to "endorse" such a route, I certainly wouldn't want to bear the "responsibility" (as little as any such organizer actually has, of course) of watching over a gaggle of 60 or more boats sailing down the beach between the Outer Banks and the Gulf Stream in November...



Last year, that sharp turn of the Stream running due East at almost 38 N was located a good 60-75 NM further south than now, and so was a pretty enticing argument for heading straight for it out of the Bay entrance... Worked out pretty good, although we never saw much favorable current right in the axis of the Stream, is just wasn't running very strong at that time. Always nice to get your easting in early on that trip, however, and it worked out fine for us, and made the decision to make a pit stop in Bermuda an easy one, when Herb began getting concerned about the potential development of another late season tropical system. I was bound for Antigua, anyway, as opposed to the 1500 fleet headed for Tortola, so staying further north of their rhumbline was a given, anyway...

Interesting to note that the participation in the 1500 is considerably down from last year, to about 40 boats, last time I looked... Looks like a lot of folks have decided to go with the Salty Dawgs, instead... More bang for the buck, no doubt about it...

The Salty Dawg Rally
10-20-2012 09:05 AM
wingNwing
Re: ICW from VA to FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfits View Post
I'm no expert on this subject but thought I had read somewhere that anyone doing the outside heading south did so on the east side of the GS. Does this make sense?
It's warmer on that east side
So that makes a lot of sense if you're headed to the Carib. If you're going to FL from Norfolk, then you obviously have to cross the Stream back again in the other direction. If you want a deep ocean experience, this is the way to do it.
10-20-2012 05:02 AM
chef2sail
Re: ICW from VA to FL

1500 heads out past the Gulfstream, is that what you are doing?
Have you finally purchased a boat or is this his?
10-19-2012 07:33 PM
rockDAWG
Re: ICW from VA to FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Sorry, but that makes no sense... What are you using for route planning, a restaurant placemat, or something? (grin)

IMO, there's no advantage to going around Hatteras shorthanded, unless you're gonna continue on at least to Wrightsville, or Charleston. Stopping in Beaufort will add a considerable amount to the inside distance, I just don't see the point of doing so with an air draft that is ICW capable... Besides, the first 200 miles of the Ditch to Morehead/Beaufort is one of the nicest parts of the trip inside, and offers the greatest likelihood of being able to sail...

In general, I think the stretch between Morehead and Charleston is the most tedious inside. South of Charleston, the discrepancy between inside/outside distances grows considerably, but at least one can often do a bit of sailing. If the breeze is strong NE, it gets pretty sloppy off the Georgia seacoast, with wives aboard, you might be better off staying inside... It's quite beautiful thru there, some interesting stops and wonderful wild, remote anchorages.

If you plan on meeting crew in Charleston or Savannah, you may want to check airfares first. One way fares in to either place can be frightfully expensive... Depending on where they're coming from, Myrtle Beach might be a more affordable option...
Thank Jon, thanks for your input. It is very helpful; I understand your points.

It looks like we are going outside from Norfolk to Charleston with a backup port of Morehead City or any near-by places. I will look into the flight from Myrtle Beach.

I understand that with an ICW capable vessel, it makes no sense to go around Hatteras. However, I need to do this eventually. This seems to be a good time since our wives are not on board with us.

We will do this in two legs in two weeks apart. The 2nd leg is from Charleston to West Palm. The vessel is a Passport that me and my friend have sailed extensively. She is not quite setup single handed, but either one of us can handle her single handed with no problem.

We may be riding the tail end of the departure of C1500, we will see.
10-15-2012 01:24 PM
rockDAWG
Re: ICW from VA to FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnBones View Post
Rockdawg. I am heading out around Nov 12th, that is the date I am currently using. I am heading to the Melbourne area to stay for a while. How far are you going?
Capt Bones,

Nov 12 is pretty much what we have in mind but can be plus 2 weeks (delay) and minus 1 week (ahead). Both my friend and I still have a full time job, so the schedules have to work out without too much disruption.

Our final destination is flexible, but we are aiming for West Palm with an intention to jump off to Bahamas. Just be aware, we can't make the whole trip in one shot (trip), we need to fly back and forth a few times before we can reach Florida. Therefore, it is our goal to sail as fast and greater distance as possible without being foolish. But I have known for taking calculated risk.

Let's keep in touch. I am sure we will meet along the ICW. Have dinner with us, we serve gourmet food daily regardless the weather or sea state.
10-14-2012 09:28 PM
PBzeer
Re: ICW from VA to FL

Some general thoughts.

Being in a rush in a sailboat, eventually, bites you in the butt.

If you want to stop at Oriental, go the ICW.

If you're going to go outside from the Chessie, keep going to at least Charleston.

Obviously, you have to do what you feel comfortable with.
10-14-2012 08:41 PM
JonEisberg
Re: ICW from VA to FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I concur with Jon big time. The run through Diamond Shoals is much greater than 8 miles offshore. I have come through there a number of times when the regular ocean swells of 4-6 ft were accentuated to 10-12 in the shoals going out 35 miles. If ypu look carefully the Atlantic goes from a couple thousand feet deep to about 100 ft in less than 3 miles. And instead of large intervals the Hatteras area had steep short intervals. There is no real place to duck in for cover as discussed that in any weather Ocracoke is not an option, and Oregon is never and option. The winds in this area not as predictable as you think either. You have many factors to consider. Down sloping winds from the mountains, short coastal plain, influence from tropical air masses meeting fronts from Canada. This can change the weather in the area quite quickly and dramatically.

What most people do not understand about the charts and Jon explained well is that these two areas as well as many of the inlets on the Jersey Shore, the sand shift daily around the channels and the CG is constantly reconfiguring temporary bouys defining them. That should tell you something about the conditions you will find there.

Auspicious has takenthe outside route many times ( I don't want to speak for him) but I don't beleive he runs the coast, certainly not at 3 miles. I thought is route was many outside the stream. He has a world of experience and is very cautious as a delivery captain, and has great experience in this area.

Personally I would not risk my boat, or life on this route and would come out after Hatteras on the way south. There is a reason it is called the graveyard of the Atlantic.

Dave
While Hatteras most certainly deserves the utmost respect, I also think some of the cautionary advice here might be a bit overwrought. Frankly, most of my trips out around have been fairly tame, or afforded some very nice sailing... Several have been motor jobs in a flat calm...

My main point is I simply don't see the value of that route from the Chesapeake as opposed to the ICW, unless you're gonna continue on until Charleston, or at least Wrightsville... If you wind up stopping in Beaufort, going down outside, even cutting the corner at Diamond Shoals as closely as possible, still adds roughly 40 miles to the total distance from Hampton Roads over the run inside... Not sure what sort of boat the OP is taking south, but if he does wind up with a calm weather window that mandates a lot of motoring, chances are he's gonna have to put into Beaufort for fuel, anyway...

If time is of the essence, run through the gauntlet of restricted bridges south of Norfolk at night, or early in the AM before they go on restriction... Stop in Coinjock, treat yourself to a great dinner, run through the following night down Pamlico Sound, you'll still be in Beaufort early the next day... I just think the OP is overestimating the time saving by going outside, unless they turn out to be incredibly lucky with the weather, and have conditions favorable for staying outside all the way to Charleston... And when that happens, it generally means a fairly sporty trip out around Frying Pan/Cape Fear, and a very tired crew of two by the time you hit Charleston...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
There appears to be an eddy running North to South close to the shore. This seems to be a common feature of the stream - that an eddy runs in the opposite direction outside the path of the Gulf Stream.

Why not ride the eddy south?

Why not sail/motor inside Diamond Shoals during the daytime instead of outside? I understand the danger of being caught on a lee shore, but if you pick the right weather window, it should work.
Perhaps there's something there, but I have never noticed a consistent counter-current running down the beach... there's always something going on about 15 miles north of Oregon Inlet, the water there is generally confused by some sort of eddy, but that's about it, I've never been able to figure out how to play it to any particular advantage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfits View Post
I'm no expert on this subject but thought I had read somewhere that anyone doing the outside heading south did so on the east side of the GS. Does this make sense?
For the trip the OP has in mind - coming down the Chesapeake, and planning to stop in Beaufort or Charleston - it makes no sense whatsoever, ESPECIALLY for an ICW-capable boat that doesn't have to go around Hatteras to begin with... Such a route would add a ridiculous amount of time and distance to the trip...

Passing east of the Stream can make sense on a voyage coming from New England, perhaps, and continuing straight onto S. Florida or the Bahamas... But coming out of the Chesapeake or coming coastwise from NY, I think simply waiting in Hampton until a weather window presents itself is the only way to go...

I've always run pretty much right down the beach, and rounded Diamond Shoals at the red nun "2", no problem... But, as Dave on AUSPICIOUS mentioned, you definitely have to be "paying attention" in that neighborhood...
10-14-2012 01:03 PM
misfits
Re: ICW from VA to FL

I'm no expert on this subject but thought I had read somewhere that anyone doing the outside heading south did so on the east side of the GS. Does this make sense?
10-14-2012 12:49 PM
blowinstink
Re: ICW from VA to FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
There appears to be an eddy running North to South close to the shore. This seems to be a common feature of the stream - that an eddy runs in the opposite direction outside the path of the Gulf Stream.

Why not ride the eddy south?

Why not sail/motor inside Diamond Shoals during the daytime instead of outside? I understand the danger of being caught on a lee shore, but if you pick the right weather window, it should work.
James, I am not qualified to advise the OP on the outside route. I planned to do that trip northbound in August (which would have been easier both because of the month and because I was headed north). Ultimately I didn't go. I have run the ICW on the inside a few times and I have done a number of coastal jumps south of Hatteras.

The reason I originally commented was that some of the discussion in the thread seems pretty far out of line with conventional wisdom and thus potentially really bad advice -- not just to the OP but to someone who might come along and read this thread later (there is also some good stuff in there from Wing N Wing and JonEisenberg and Pbreezer). Maybe you can pass inside the diamond shoals light -- but I have *never* heard *anyone* advise doing that. I do know that the discussion of sailing "outside" to Oriental disregards the fact that Oriental is maybe 30-40 miles from the coast. The OP also talked about heading out behind a cold front - which is definitely a common strategy if you are crossing the stream and going far offshore but maybe not the best strategy if you plan to stay coastal. I don't think there is anything wrong with breaking the rules, but you ought to know what they are first -- so that you understand the risks.

The other point I'd make is that between waiting for a weather window and recovering from a 40 run, you probably don't save any time by running offshore. Just something to think about.

Here is some of the CW:

An article by John Kretscmer which is not exactly on point but useful:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruisi...-hatteras.html

Finally, if you are going to go, I would suggest you reach out to SVAuspicious who (as Wing n Wing noted) has done this trip quite a few times. I read one his posts on topic (southbound inside the stream) and he used the phrase "you really need to pay close attention" -- that got my attention. I'd ask him for details.
Luck
-M
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