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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Fin vs bulb vs wing keels
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-22-2012 11:42 AM
skygazer
Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryceGTX View Post
.... The next aspect I find intriguing is that the wing keel is the only keel of the three that actually creates damping in the vertical direction. ...
I found this to be an interesting idea (vertical dampening). I'd never been on a wing keeled boat until I rebuilt a Hunter 23 this spring/mid summer. When I finally tried it out on a local lake to see if it would sail and if everything worked, I was surprised when I first hit some motorboat wake. I expected the normal up and down hobby horsing I've always had, throwing the wind out of my sails, but instead the boat seemed to flatten the wave and go through almost on the level. I was thrilled each time I went through wakes - which was constantly, every motor boat seems required to alter course to pass just in front of a sailboat. (Partly I think it's interest, I heard one kid yell over the motor, "Dad, could we get a sailboat?".)

When I got it on the ocean I noticed the same effect, although of course it rode up and down the swells, but it still seemed to flatten smaller waves and continue on without losing the wind in the sails.

I attributed it to the modern almost straight, unsexy, uncurved, no sheer hull shape, but it's entirely possible the smallish wings did have some effect as well. The idea never crossed my mind, and I appreciate you pointing it out.

Must be my early childhood experiences, but I still seem fixated on deep, full keels on curvy boats as "stomach grabbing" beauty. I admit to lusting after boats shaped overall like a Contessa. I only bought the Hunter because it was close by, low priced, and had a trailer with broken brakes that could be wired and fixed. (OK, the fin keel/ full keel pages also made me curious.)

Sailing the Hunter was a very pleasant surprise. My first day on the ocean was also my first day with a GPS. Just a pocket model, had to change screens to see my speed (in MPH, not knots). With a theoretical hull speed of something like 5.9 knots, I was surprised to change screens and see I was going 6.2 MPH against a very strong tide between islands, tacking into the moderately brisk wind. Days later I found that the GPS had saved a trail and showed my top speed at 8.3 MPH. Further, the interior has no liner, just carpet glued to the hull. Almost no bilge. Sounds bad but actually makes it deep and spacious and comfortable for such a small boat. We stayed on it for a week, sailing on and off our anchor except for one very tight boat filled anchorage. I now actually like it a lot (coastal sailing). Just got it out of the water last weekend. Glad, because there is a possible huge storm coming at the end of Oct/start of Nov.
10-22-2012 11:42 AM
bobperry
Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Marty:
My wife was at the shack all day Saturday and she was a bit concerned about the weather we would have on the race. It was pretty damn nice actually. Much worse at the shack.

We had a really good race and got 2nd in class in a tubby, pilot house double ender that had a lot of bigger, more modern boats looking slow. I drove the boat harder than it had ever been driven according to the owner but I had a ball and the boat responded very well. The Carol Hassey sails were new and a good part of the key to out performance. All in all a satisfying day on the water.
10-22-2012 08:33 AM
chef2sail
Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

We were chased back to our home port by a spout in earlier September by a waterspout off off Baltimores North Point on the nChesapeake Bay and the Patapsco River.

We had made our way back to the Bay that day from Cape May as it was the last day of our NE/ LI Sound trip and the wether had been threatening all day with TStorms. As we approached the Patapsco the clouds lowered, got greenish purple and we saw a funnel drop sideways out of the hook like looking cloud. It hit the water about a half a mile away, and we could hear the low rumble of it. We had our sails down and engine on ull blast as we saw it moving parallel with us for 5 minutes. We finally hit the river and were able to veer away as it continued SW.

That was close enough for me.

Dave
10-22-2012 02:46 AM
blt2ski
Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Not sure which would be worst, a water spout, or an actual cyclone/dust devil type thing. The water possibly, since water would should have more solid mass to it!
10-22-2012 02:44 AM
SloopJonB
Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Waterspouts on north Puget Sound - Local News - Seattle, WA | NBC News

Good thing we were not in Everett! or there abouts eh! It was more PHUN weather wise near BP's house!
I saw one of those once on English Bay. Has anyone here ever been hit by one?
10-22-2012 02:32 AM
blt2ski
Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Waterspouts on north Puget Sound - Local News - Seattle, WA | NBC News

Good thing we were not in Everett! or there abouts eh! It was more PHUN weather wise near BP's house!
10-21-2012 10:49 PM
blt2ski
Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Bob,

Did not know you were out there yesterday. Did you like that squall about 3pm or there abouts! about 1/3 of the fall regatta folks dropped out in the third race! Was real happy about our finish, only had three on board, could have used 2 others, got a 1st and 2nd, last a 5th........wore out the crew on that one, so went easy when the squall came thru, took them awhile to want to put the jib up, but once we did, could not catch the others in front......oh well, was afraid we would have a 3rd overall from that fiasco!

Sloop was packed afterwards last night too! Were you at the party?

Marty
10-21-2012 09:45 PM
bobperry
Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

GTX:
Thanks and you are correct. But in all fairness that was a different time and money was more available for experiments like that. It was fun. We had fun. We all enjoyed the process and we all understood the results. We flew back to Seattle satisfied and feeling like we had learned something.

It's a different world today.

Ok, I deleted the rest of this post because it got political and if I thought you had any interest at all in my political opinions I'd think you were idiots. I know better.
10-21-2012 09:35 PM
BryceGTX
Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
My last post was made after a long and hard and succesful day of racing in lots of wind. I was tired and re-reading my post it now seems a bit snotty. My excuse is, I was feeling snotty. I'll work on being nicer next time.
Hi Bob.. Not sure about anyone else, but I did not take your post as a bad post.

I found your post about the two boats quite useful as I have often wondered the real performance difference between the two keels. It seemed a very well controlled test between two boats. Would be nice if all comparisons between boats was so well done.
Bryce
10-21-2012 02:46 PM
jrd22
Re: Fin vs bulb vs wing keels

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
R3:
Racing a pilot house baba 35 we managed a second in class being beat by 22 seconds on corrected time and 2 minutes on elapsed time by a well sailed ( damn it) Cat 30 raced by a very good sailor and old pal of mine.
Like a ray of sunshine, it is

The Baba PHs were my dream boat for years and years Bob.
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