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Boarding and rafting to stranger's boats.

16K views 125 replies 46 participants last post by  L124C 
#1 · (Edited)
Had my boat tied up to a public dock over the weekend. Tied on Starboard, open water (with a lot of surge) on Port. We left the boat unattended for a while (no time limits, etc.). When we returned to the boat, from a distance, I thought I saw a guy jump on my boat, cross the cockpit to Port, then jump back to the dock on Starboard. As he walked toward me on the dock, I stopped him and said "Did I just see you on that boat (pointing to my boat)?" He said: "Yeah, (he pointed to another boat docking in a spot that just opened) we were going to raft up, but it didn't work out". I said "What the hell do you think you are doing jumping on someone else's boat?" He replied "Happens all the time." I said: "I strongly suggest you don't do it on THAT boat again!"
I have been involved in regattas, where, out of necessity, everyone is rafted up at the yacht club, and people come and go freely in the spirit of the event and YC environment. However, this was a public dock in the middle of a major metropolis (not even a marina). Had I been closer to the boat when I found him on it, he would have had a very unpleasant experience. It didn't even dawn on me until later that apparently, they were considering rafting up to my boat in major surge, without my permission. Had I found another boat rafted up to mine when I returned, well....I don't even want to think about it (I wouldn't let a friend raft up in that surge)!
How would you react in this situation? Am I overreacting, or did these guys have some brass?
 
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#40 ·
I still have yet to see an argument made that speaks to the fact that regardless of what you may desire at the moment (immediate parking for your pleasure boat), you are out there sailing by choice - and your desire to dock isn't an emergency or necessarily a situation that should give you easement rights over another private property.

While the dock may be public, the vessel you are commandeering and boarding in order to access that dock is not. It just strikes me as a very entitled attitude to have, again in light of the fact that you make the choice to potentially sail up to a dock that may not have the room to accommodate you.

I don't see a justification (unless in an emergency) as to why you are entitled to park your boat at the risk and expense of another boater who got there first.

?:confused:
 
#61 · (Edited)
I still have yet to see an argument made that speaks to the fact that regardless of what you may desire at the moment (immediate parking for your pleasure boat), you are out there sailing by choice - and your desire to dock isn't an emergency or necessarily a situation that should give you easement rights over another private property.
While the dock may be public, the vessel you are commandeering and boarding in order to access that dock is not. It just strikes me as a very entitled attitude to have, again in light of the fact that you make the choice to potentially sail up to a dock that may not have the room to accommodate you.I don't see a justification (unless in an emergency) as to why you are entitled to park your boat at the risk and expense of another boater who got there first.?:confused:
I completely agree. Car parking is tight in SF (an understatement!). Let's just leave our keys in the ignition, pack the lot as tight as we can, and let whoever needs to leave, sort it out. Why not? You know darn well "why not"!
What happens if my "guest" (who I didn't know was on my boat) trips on a line, does a face plant into my cockpit and breaks his neck (could be drunk or just clumsy)? Does my insurance cover it, or was he trespassing? Was he preparing to raft a boat, or going shopping in my salon?
What if the rafting boat doesn't use fenders ("we're just dropping someone off") gouges the side of my boat in the surge, and leaves, without me even knowing they were there. Who do I look to for compensation?
Yet, I'm supposed to trust a person who I've never met, to board and handle my boat without my knowledge?
I certainly don't have a "Hinkely". However, I work hard to maintain the old boat I have. I find the concept that what would be considered trespassing on land, is acceptable at sea, nothing short of bizarre (regatta, and marina situations, not withstanding).
If I'm aboard, I'd do everything possible to accomidate them.
 
#41 ·
My brother used to live on Staten Island. Mike and I had spent the afternoon having a good time in Manhattan after which we boarded the ferry to Staten Island. After departing the ferry at the other end I see everyone making for a long line of cabbies so I step into an empty one with Mile one step behind. Mike tells the cabby where we're going and next thing I know the cab is quickly filling with odd characters. I was soon instructing them that this was our cab but was quickly interrupted by Mike with "This is how it works here". Apparently we fill the cab and share the cost. Well I made this out to be quite an odd custom particularly in a very large city like New York. But it was practical, friendly and it worked quite well. I now wish it was customary elsewhere. I think we're all a bit too quick to guard our privacy and at the same time we're missing out on new experiences and interacting with strangers. This was back in the early 80s so it could be different now but that would be a shame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#48 ·
It should be pointed out to folks who are new to rafting that hanging bouys is not the only concern to mitigate damage. Another, and I think a far larger concern, is mast swing. Boats need to be staggered otherwise the boat on the outside hit by a large wake will roll first and the mast can swing and hook the shroud/mast of the inside boat.

That said, I think rafting up is an age old custom of the sea and if it is the last option available to me it is one I will take with the usual qualifications of it being public (i.e. free) and would not cause damage to the other boat.

I have rafted up to strangers in a number of countries and while the raftees would prefer it not be done they were resigned to the fact it was the only option. The last guy I rafted to actually only moaned about having to work the lines for the tide while I got a free ride up and down next to his boat.


Originally Posted by rockDAWG

'It is only money, we can always make some more.'

Originally Posted by casey1999

'Try telling that to the mother of a starving baby in some third world country.'

I will give it a shot when I raft up next to her yacht
 
#49 ·
It should be pointed out to folks who are new to rafting that hanging bouys is not the only concern to mitigate damage. Another, and I think a far larger concern, is mast swing. Boats need to be staggered otherwise the boat on the outside hit by a large wake will roll first and the mast can swing and hook the shroud/mast of the inside boat.

That said, I think rafting up is an age old custom of the sea and if it is the last option available to me it is one I will take with the usual qualifications of it being public (i.e. free) and would not cause damage to the other boat.

I have rafted up to strangers in a number of countries and while the raftees would prefer it not be done they were resigned to the fact it was the only option. The last guy I rafted to actually only moaned about having to work the lines for the tide while I got a free ride up and down next to his boat.

Originally Posted by rockDAWG

'It is only money, we can always make some more.'

Originally Posted by casey1999

'Try telling that to the mother of a starving baby in some third world country.'

I will give it a shot when I raft up next to her yacht
With your attitude, raft next to me I'll cut ye lines. Good thing ye on the other side of the world..
 
#50 ·
Problem I see with rafting is that things are a lot different than say 30 to 100 years ago. Today everything has become litigious and no one takes responsibility for there own actions and damage it may cause.

You say you will only raft if it is safe and will not cause damage. Who is to be the sole judge of the damge, the one doing the rafting or the one being rafted to. Do you have adequate insurance to cover the damage and hardship you may cause or do you have very deep pockets? What if a power boat wake causes your masts to hang up and you do $50K worth of damage- are you prepared for that event. Accidents happen even when taking upmost care.

I would never raft without permission.
 
#52 ·
Casey1999, I think your last post was referring to my post so in response I'll just say in my experience I have never seen firsthand a rafted boat damage another. This might be due to the extreme caution taken when rafting but I don't know for sure. What I have seen firsthand is boats dragging through anchorages, damage from one boat to another in side by side slips and boats falling over on the hard hitting the boat next to it. Granted rafting might not be practised as extensively as the other modes and so my experience might be biased but I do not think it puts other boats in undue peril if using a common sense approach.

Without empirical data I could not give an informed opinion on societal responsibility today as opposed to 70-100 years ago.

As far as litigiousness is concerned law in the States is refined by the courts hence the active jurisprudence.
 
#53 ·
Casey1999, I think your last post was referring to my post so in response I'll just say in my experience I have never seen firsthand a rafted boat damage another. This might be due to the extreme caution taken when rafting but I don't know for sure. What I have seen firsthand is boats dragging through anchorages, damage from one boat to another in side by side slips and boats falling over on the hard hitting the boat next to it. Granted rafting might not be practised as extensively as the other modes and so my experience might be biased but I do not think it puts other boats in undue peril if using a common sense approach.

Without empirical data I could not give an informed opinion on societal responsibility today as opposed to 70-100 years ago.

As far as litigiousness is concerned law in the States is refined by the courts hence the active jurisprudence.
My comment was based on this quote by you. I really don't care why, when and how you raft, as long as it is not next to me!

Originally Posted by rockDAWG

'It is only money, we can always make some more.'

Originally Posted by casey1999

'Try telling that to the mother of a starving baby in some third world country.'

Originally Posted by ScottUK:
"I will give it a shot when I raft up next to her yacht"
 
#55 · (Edited)
Seems your side of the pond has all the same arguments about rafting:
Mooring buoy and rafting up etiquette - Yachting and Boating World Forums

Aw, that was a joke, sorry I misunderstood.

This is thread #41 from above link- so damage does happen:

"We were once in a raft of 14 boats in Dunmore East in very windy conditions. The wind was blowing from almost directly ahead. We were about 7 out and had shore lines but not too many others did. After about a day the inside boat, probably about a 34 footer, moved outside because he was suffering major crushing damage.

I still have a composite photograph of the raft ahead of us. It was also 13 or 14 deep, but the outside boat was an enormous Austrian-flagged aluminium catamaran. It was probably twice the length of some of the inner boats."
 
#56 ·
I'm not at all in this situation but this discussion brings a question to mind... what do you do when you want to leave and someone is rafted up to you? If I'm the boat on the dock no a side tie and someone rafts up to me fine... but now what do I do when it's time for me to leave? If you're single handing how do you get your own boat free without setting the other boat adrift?

My biggest concerns would be people rafting up to a bow or stern pulpit or otherwise
 
#59 ·
I'm not at all in this situation but this discussion brings a question to mind... what do you do when you want to leave and someone is rafted up to you? If I'm the boat on the dock no a side tie and someone rafts up to me fine... but now what do I do when it's time for me to leave? If you're single handing how do you get your own boat free without setting the other boat adrift? My biggest concerns would be people rafting up to a bow or stern pulpit or otherwise
Covered earlier in the thread.
 
#58 ·
Casey1999 after a cursory review it would appear the most people are ok with the rafting and point out and ostracise the ones who aren't. The damaged boat you point out was at the end of 14 boats with a large cat on the outside and it was blowing ****e so I think this case would have to be an exception. Never have rafted on a mooring ball though I think they had been directed there by the marina or harbour master.
 
#60 ·
The only place on the Chesapeake--not including regattas and the like--is in the Dismal Swamp Canal. The reason in the canal? Dockage is very limited, folks may have to stop overnight because of the opening schedule, and anchoring-out is not a legal or practical answer. Either accept rafting or don't take the canal.

My experiences were very polite; refusing would have been rude.
 
#63 ·
There are three kinds of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.

That said, this thread nets out to two groups: rafting is OK, and its my boat and you can't raft to it. I would suggest that local custom is mostly a result of necessity. In areas with lots of boats and not much dockage rafting becomes a custom. In the (paid) marina in Horta, Faisal, Azores every (paid) boat in the marina is rafted usually 3 deep. Getting the inside boat out of the nest with a three raft in front and behind is quite a trick. That is why everyone on the dock helps out. For those who say "they should anchor out" the anchorage is far to small to accommodate the boats that are rafted. When it gets a little dicey the inside boat gets pressed up against a concrete seawall. Not fun but it is the way it is. Usually the outside boats will contribute fenders for the inside boat but not always.

In Europe "med mooring" is common. One backs (or goes bow in) to a wall or pontoon with the other end of the boat (normally the bow) being held by an anchor. You are side by side with two other boats with no place to put lines and no dock. Although not the same as rafting many of the same concerns hold - what if he swings into me, what if our masts hit each other, etc. Med mooring has been a fact of life in Europe forever, most boats carry far more and bigger fenders than you would see in the US.

IMHO rafting at public docks is usually controlled by the dockmaster. In Jacksonville FL it is mandatory. In Savannah, GA it is prohibited (I believe to protect the docks which are not that strong and sit in a strong current.) Like others have noted I have a tag with my phone number on the boat so that people can call me. But not only have I come back from a provisioning trip to find someone rafted to my boat, I have come back to find my boat in a different place on the dock! I have been on board inside and heard footsteps on my boat only to discover that people from the next boat already docked are climbing on to make sure that someone rafting to me has a safe and damage free landing believing my boat to be unattended.

Custom can also override common sense. It has been noted that the custom is to cross the bow. On Reboot usually the bow has a dinghy, fuel tanks, etc. making crossing difficult. So I invite the people who are rafted to me to cross the cockpit. Do they? No, of course not. That would be rude. So they climb over all my ****e on the bow!

Many have pointed out that they would raft with friends but not with strangers. I have solved this problem both as the rafter and the raftee. After we get the lines over, with particular emphasis on the spring lines to protect the spreaders and masts I say "do you want a beer?" Voila - now we are friends!

My two cents.
 
#65 · (Edited)
i have rafted and been rafted to--i do not like the cracks in the teak rail (now needing replacement, but there is no wood for this--is TEAK, 1X6Xalmost 10 feet)as a result nor do i enjoy the knitting of rigging with sailing boats lighter than mine when rafted in a surge/swell situation. rough water--i will not raft, thankyou--i have enough damage from those small boats who stated that "woudn't happen" to me, before cracking my teak rails.
i try to keep my anchoring away from others, and i will visit if and when i feel the need or urge to meet. having strangers near my boat disturbs my guard cat.

no, i am not mean, i am knowledgeable. btdt with rafting in a rough water situation. will not do that again. i even did it 2 times, to make sure it didnt work. so i have an open mind--just not to rafting against my boat or with it.

by the way--NO ONE has the RIGHT or PRIVILEGE to walk onto someone else's boat UNINVITED and without requesting permission to board the ship. (not learned from a yottie--but from an old salt merchant mariner/sailor)
 
#67 · (Edited)
anyone ostracising anyone else is no sailor of boats.
everyone has a different experience with everything-- because someone doesnt want to raft due to whatever reason, is a worthy opinion and not to be badmouthed--of course, if one is not a sailor, is very easy to point out what is , in their mind, bad and good ideas--lol but i think that is called trolling.
 
#69 ·
Why would anybody have the expectation of exclusive use for an unattended public dock or landing? Other boaters have the same right to the dock as you do given that there are no restrictions as to number of boats allowed to dock at any one time. If you do not want risk someone rafting to you on a public dock – do not leave your boat unattended and be willing to leave when the next boater wishes to land or dock. It is pretty simple. If you want exclusive use, you should be willing to pay for it by going to a guest dock where they charge you for the privilege.

Once, someone who was attempting to Med-moor alongside my (unattended) boat gouged my gel-cote. He was very diligent in contacting me and prompt in paying for my repairs. The sad fact of San Francisco Bay is there is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 boats and only a few public (and free) docks. We also have few places to even anchor. The classic case in point is Sam’s in Tiburon. As to the Ferry building dock, what are time restrictions for tying up? Isn’t the primary intension of the dock for dropping off and picking up crew and not for “all day use”?
 
#74 · (Edited)
Why would anybody have the expectation of exclusive use for an unattended public dock or landing? Other boaters have the same right to the dock as you do given that there are no restrictions as to number of boats allowed to dock at any one time. If you do not want risk someone rafting to you on a public dock - do not leave your boat unattended and be willing to leave when the next boater wishes to land or dock. It is pretty simple. If you want exclusive use, you should be willing to pay for it by going to a guest dock where they charge you for the privilege. Once, someone who was attempting to Med-moor alongside my (unattended) boat gouged my gel-cote. He was very diligent in contacting me and prompt in paying for my repairs. The sad fact of San Francisco Bay is there is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 boats and only a few public (and free) docks. We also have few places to even anchor. The classic case in point is Sam's in Tiburon. As to the Ferry building dock, what are time restrictions for tying up? Isn't the primary intension of the dock for dropping off and picking up crew and not for "all day use"?
As I recall the only posted restrictions at Pier 1.5 (the dock you refer to) are that it is open 6am to 10 pm, and no overnight docking is allowed. It's seems intended to allow boat crews access to the restaurants and shops on the Embarcadero as well as for pick up and drop off. It also has as a specific area for Water Taxis. During the super busy weekend I refer to in the OP, I used it Sat. (to go to a restaurant) and Sun. (for pick up and drop off) and never saw one water taxi. I have used it since it has been open, and space is rarely an issue. I have NEVER seen any boats rafted there (or any other public dock for that matter). I don't "expect exclusive rights" but think it is first come, first served. Nor was I aware that by docking there, I was granting implied rights, or an easement on my boat. I'm still not convinced that is the case (in the Bay Area anyway). The public dock between the Mariposa and Bayview YC's has a sign that states that any boats left unattended will be towed. At the public dock at Jack London, I think there is a posted 3 hour limit (never enforced, they are just happy to have you there!). I think Sam's is looser, as anyone docking there is likely to be on the deck overlooking the dock (or at least is Sam's).
One time, I couldn't get the boat into Sam's to drop someone off due to low water, so I dropped him off at the gated ferry dock and left. Turns out, the gate won't let anyone in or OUT without a key. He stood there for 40 minutes until the next Ferry came!
BTW - I did have a solar spot light I was charging "leave" the cockpit at 1.5. The same spotlight has spent years in my cockpit at various marinas. So...there clearly is a difference in environments (not that things don't disappear from marinas).
 
#75 ·
I would think local laws, regs, customs would be the rule one should adhere to. But in any case, I do not think one should assume they can raft without permission unless it is a local law, regulation or custom to do so. If you are not sure if it proper to raft, then don't do it.

True you do not "own" a public dock, but you should have exclusive use of the space you occupy while you are there. And no one should have permission to touch your boat or tie to you unless you have given them permission to do so, or if is the local law, reg or custom (when in Rome, do as the Roman's do).

I look at it like a free on street public parking space. You have exclusive use of that space within the local laws, regs and customs. No one has the right to move your vehicle, to touch your vehicle, or to double park and block you in.
 
#80 ·
I would think local laws, regs, customs would be the rule one should adhere to...
I agree, with the exception of your "customs" wording. Try using the "It's the local custom" argument in the court of law when attempting to argue your position.

I keep hearing a lot of talk here about the right to raft given a public dock. Are you sure? I've searched high and low with regards to my own State's policy on this and haven't found squat. I'd be curious to see (link) other State's regs on this if they so exist.
 
#76 · (Edited)
L124C, thanks for the info. I remember reading about the Ferry Building Pier in Latitude but couldn’t recall the details. From what I’ve seen sailing by, it gets a lot of surge from both the Bay and the ferries. Not my cup of tea. I just figured that it being managed by the City, it would have the same restrictions as Dock A at South Beach and the fuel dock at Gas House Cove. I did some internet sleuthing and found this gem on the OCSC website:

“Pier 1½, open from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. every day, only has a few rules – no rafting, no boats over 40 feet, and stays are limited to three hours are the biggies”

It seems to me that the City needs to do a better job at signage. You are absolutely right, no rafting, but unfortunately, you will have to be on your boat in order to enforce it. Now here is an ethical dilemma, upon returning to your boat and finding an unattended rafted boat, what do you do? Cut him loose? Wait and confront him? How do you know that he knew that he parked illegally? Perhaps he didn’t know? I have talked to boaters who like yourself, have suffered damage at that dock. They all said that docking there was a mistake and wouldn’t do it again. You are always at risk for theft if you leave your boat unattended at an unlocked public dock. We use Dock A for dropping off and picking up crew and when we have to leave the boat for any time at all we button her down tight.

The ramp at Bayview - what brings you down there? Did drop your boat off there to see a Giants game? Before they installed the second dock at Sam's there was rafting there. At Petaluma, if you are not Med-Moor'd you will be rafted on - especially on a three day weekend. I have seen rafts at Jack London (Scott's Seafood Dock), I don't know if they were all part of a group.
 
#77 ·
Parking a car is a very poor analogy Casey. There are always more parking spots or parkades within a few blocks, there rarely are more marinas or other docks to tie up at in the vicinity, at least here in BC. On top of that being rafted to does not effect your ability to leave unlike double parking. Here most of us expect people to raft. Some have used the term easement but that only applies to real estate. You'd have more luck using the trespass laws but in many cases that requires you to post a sign as we do at the dock in front of the house.
 
#78 ·
Where I live there is not more parking spots within a few blocks. Ever driven to a big sporting event and tried to find parking? If someone rafts to your boat, and you are single handing and no one around, it could very well effect your ability to leave- the same as if someone double parks you in (or blocks your driveway). Like I say, the local laws, regs and customs prevail, but parking analogy is good for me.
 
#84 ·
I assume that it's obvious when you arrive, posted or they tell you when you pay?
I have no problem rafting, as long as I know to expect it, and can put out proper fenders to accommodate it. If it was super surgy (as it is at the dock in the OP), I'd go elsewhere or on the hook. Another member stated that in fact, it is forbidden at that dock, so apparently the Port Authority agrees that it's not a proper location for rafting.
 
#81 · (Edited)
Casey we'll have to disagree on your analogy. In any event it is common in BC and I wouldnt think twice about rafting to an appropriate vessel here at a public dock unless weather conditions or something else made it unsafe.

Rocket Science did you happen to find any where that said you cant? Unless specifically prohibited most actions are legal.
 
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