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Vancouver 27 vs Albin Vega 27

32K views 34 replies 8 participants last post by  copacabana 
#1 ·
Just looking to hear how other people feel these boats stack up against each other? I lean towards the Vancouver but like the prices of the Vega. The ones I've looked at so far all seam sea worthy however both the Vancouvers need major interior refits compared to decent interiors in the Vegas I've been to see. I prefer the Vancouvers mainly for the transom hung rudder, and I'm not a huge fan of that massive window on the Vega but I'm willing to over look that because of their reputation.

Basically I want to know of one is an inherintely and substantionally better boat or does it come down to personal preference. They both seem pretty similar overall.

Sidenote: the Vancouvers are both of the single headsail variety no cutter rigs.
 
#3 ·
They are pretty different boats. Look at the displacement of each for a start. Both have a good reputation and have done a lot of open ocean miles. What kind of sailing are you going to do with the boat? For local/coastal sailing perhaps the Vega would be better. I'd favour the Vancouver for crossing oceans and I think the layout of the Vancouver 27 is very good for an offshore boat. By coincidence, I'm reading a book by an English couple who sailed extensively in Patagonia and the Chilean canals in a Vancouver 27. They did a prior circumnavigation on a Vega 27. The book is called "Winter in Fire Land" if you're interested in a first-hand account of challenging sailing aboard a Vancouver 27.
 
#4 ·
The Van 27 is a lot more boat. It was designed specifically as a minimum offshore cruiser for 1 or 2 people.
 
#5 ·
@copocabana

Thanks for the book recommendation. Do they compare the two boats in it? It would be nice to read a first hand account comparing the two.

Met a guy today who worked in the construction of the original Van 27s and was able to point out some of their features. I guess they had a slight design change in 77, added a bit of beam at the water line to stiffen her up. He's made one for himself, out of wood and cold molded with fiberglass. Looks really nice inside even unfinished. He even had a set of drawings for the windvane among other things. My heart says Vancouver, but my wallet says I'll have more left in the kitty with an Albin. Maybe I should just go with an Alberg 30.

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#6 ·
An Albin Vega can be drasticaly improved as an offshore boat, by putting an outboard rudder on her, on a well built skeg. It can drastically simplify self steering, inside and autopilot steering, via a trimtab on the trailing edge of the rudder..
 
#7 ·
Agri, the author doesn't really compare the boats, but you will get a feeling for the ability of the Vancouver 27 when he describes the tough conditions down to Patagonia. I know many will argue the Vega is a great boat (no doubt it is), but if you can afford the Vancouver, I'd go for it. You haven't mentioned what you want to do with the boat though. The Vancouver 27 would make an excellent pocket cruiser to go just about anywhere in comfort. For weekend coastal sailing I think the Vega might be better. What is the condition of each boat?
 
#8 ·
I'm actually trying to decide between two Vegas a Vancouver and a Pacific Seacraft 25. The higher priced of the two Vegas has been recently repowered as has the Vancouver. That said the owners of the higher priced Vega as well as the Vancouver didn't seem that big on maintenance. The survey from last year said that the alternator belt needed to be tightened which has clearly not been done, the water in the bilge is oily as well. On the Vancouver all the standing rigging is loose not just a little bit but considerably. Seeing that makes me wonder why the boat was repowered and what other things might be neglected.

On the other hand the lower priced Vega is in excellent condition for her age, at least to my eye. The owner seemed to be a very meticulous person. The kind of guy that needs to have everything working just right. The minus side was that it still had the original engine in it. That said I could see nothing wrong with it. It fired up and ran fine. Apparantly he has a spare one he uses for parts as well as a reliable supplier in Europe. If it wasn't for the engine being original I probably would have bought the boat on the spot. It wasn't just the engine that was original, it still had all the original teak cleats as well.

As far as sailing intentions go I have big dreams but for the near future mainly coastal sailing.

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#9 ·
Agri, I'm going to go out on a limb with some advice here ... I haven't seen the boats you're looking at, but I'd approach it like this: both the Vega and Vancouver are small boats and should have low refit and maintenance costs. The big costs are likely going to be (a) engine replacement, (b) complete re-rigging and (c) a new suit of sails. If the Vancouver has a new engine then I'd look carefully at the rig and sails. If they're in good shape, I'd go for the Vancouver providing the hull and decks are solid. Most of the systems in a boat that size are going to be both simple and inexpensive to fix and replace. You'll likely have foot pumps for water, no fridge (just an icebox), no fancy systems. A simple boat is easy to maintain and you'll find that you can do the work yourself without it becoming onerous. You're getting a lot of boat with the Vancouver, especially if your plans include sailing off into the sunset.
 
#10 ·
Agri, I'm going to go out on a limb with some advice here ... I haven't seen the boats you're looking at, but I'd approach it like this: both the Vega and Vancouver are small boats and should have low refit and maintenance costs. The big costs are likely going to be (a) engine replacement, (b) complete re-rigging and (c) a new suit of sails.
Keep in mind the Van 27 is a BIG 27' - about 10K Lbs, so it's likely to cost more like a typical 32' - 34' as far as gear goes.
 
#11 ·
The Vancouver 27, from a quick search, displaces 8,960 lbs and the Vega 5,148 lbs. They are both small boats and I would expect very similar costs to maintain either. I don't see why the Vancouver would cost as much as a 32ft or 34ft boat. In both the case of the Vancouver and the Vega one would expect simple systems. There just isn't the space to start loading on a lot of complex systems on a boat this size. Another advantage of the Vancouver with its higher displacement is that it is likely able to carry more weight in supplies before its sailing ability is compromised.
 
#12 ·
The displacement of the Van 27 is nearly double that of the Albin. Boat expenses go up more in relation to displacement than LOA. These days 10K Lbs is pretty typical for 32'-34' boats so I would expect the size of gear needed and so forth to be similar to the Van 27.
 
#13 ·
I see your point John, and normally I would agree. It's just that when you talk about such a small, simple boat I don't think the displacement will make much of a difference in the maintenance costs. The Vancouver may have a bigger anchor, perhaps a new suit of sails will cost a bit more, etc. We're still talking inexpensive boat costs for both boats. Both the Vega and the Vancouver are pretty much perfect pocket cruisers. Our friend Agri is in a win-win decision situation. Personally, I'd go for the Vancouver if it surveyed well as I like the layout better and I believe it's a tougher cruiser (and it was designed specifically as a small offshore cruising boat).
 
#14 ·
Absolutely - the Van 27 is just a lot more boat. I don't think there's any question that it's the better choice in this instance.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the help. The Vega and the Van both meet my requirements there is no doubt about that. I'm definitely leaning towards the Van I really prefer the transom mounted rudder and the overall look of the boat. The problem I'm having right now is that in the interest of covering all my bases and checking out every boat in the area that appeared to me might requirments I took a look at a Pacific Seacraft 25. Now while it checks a lot of boxes for me personally, full keel, transom mounted rudder, double ended, compression post under the mast, chain plates on everything ( even the stantions for the life lines have chain plates on the under side which the Vega didn't have) when I sat in the cockpit it didn't seem as if it would be as dry as the above mentioned boats. That said when I close my eyes its the one I'm thinking of. I guess I just need to hurry up and make a decision. The broker for the Van called me today saying that others are showing interest in it so my chance at a good deal may be slipping away there if I don't hurry up and decide.

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#16 ·
The PS25 is a sweetheart - a real little ship that just reeks of quality but for long term cruising it would come up a bit short - pun intended - no standing headroom. It's also nearly 1/2 the size of the Van 27, about the same disp. as the Vega.
 
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#18 ·
Can't speak to the Van 27 as I have never seen one, but I owned a Vega for 10 years. Fantastic boat, often wish I still had it. The Vega is truly well designed and quality built. Some aspects are a bit unusal by today's design briefs but it is a package that works when you are actually out there, doing it (think old Volvo joke ad: boxy but good!). There were probably more Vegas built than any other boat that size (3000+). Numerous ocean crossings and circumnaigations too. Great owner associations in US & GB with lots of advice and support. Sweet sailing boat. You won't regret owning one.
 
#20 ·
That is definitely something worth considering which I haven't been until now. With almost 5000 pounds more of displacement and a couple feet less on the water line it's going to take a bit more wind to get a Van 27 going, I assume.

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#21 ·
No question that with a designed SA/D of 14 it's going to want some wind to move. I sure wouldn't want to own one for local cruising but if one is looking for a minimal offshore cruiser, it is in pretty limited company.
 
#22 ·
Agri, you would do well to get the book I mentioned above as it really gives a great account of what a Vancouver 27 can do. Link below:

Winter in Fireland: A Patagonian Sailing Adventure: Amazon.ca: Nicholas Coghlan: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51oEcFonP9L.@@AMEPARAM@@51oEcFonP9L

The British couple average 100 nautical miles or better a day on all their passages, which is reasonable for a 27 footer. Their route went from South Africa to Brazil, down the Atlantic coast to Patagonia and then into the Chilean canals (I haven't finished the book yet, so I don't know where they go next!). Demanding, difficult conditions the whole way and the boat performed flawlessly. This is an area very seldom sailed in 27-foot boats... It might not be the ideal choice for local sailing in light winds, but I think for longer trips it's pretty much ideal. The lower SA/D isn't necessarily a big problem. The Van 27 is a cutter so it is well suited to going downwind with both headsails poled out. You can also use a code zero or asymmetrical to get more sail area in light conditions. The cutter rig makes it much easier to balance the boat, especially when you start to reduce sail. Most of their sailing in the south Atlantic was under just a (partially furled) staysail and perhaps a triple-reefed main. This kept the boat balanced and comfortable in bad conditions. Again, the kind of sailing you plan on doing will determine whether the Vancouver or the Vega is better for you. Both are terrific boats. Have you had the chance to take a trial sail on both yet? I think a few hours on each boat will help you to make the decision. One will just feel "right".
 
#23 ·
I'm going to look at another Van 27 today, however I believe this one is sloop rigged. From what I know of the Van 27 design it wouldn't be that hard to change it into a cutter. It's a lot newer then the other one I've looked at but I like the extra sail area of a cutter. Is there any advantage to having a cutter over a sloop on this size of boat? I'm thinking that the extra sail area would help offset the heavy displacement in light winds.

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#24 ·
Less efficient but it gives you some flexibility re: shortening down without going on the foredeck - at least if you have downhauls on the foresails.

A big genoa is better for sailing efficiency than jib & staysail of equivalent area.
 
#25 ·
Agri, you'll find that there are fans of both cutters and sloops. A sloop has some advantages to windward. A cutter is more flexible, as John mentions, and you'll find it easy to balance the boat in all conditions, especially in heavy weather. I have a cutter and I can only see advantages to this rig, but that's just my opinion. You can always add a removable stay to a sloop to raise a storm staysail in heavy weather. This gives you a good storm sail plan with the advantages of a sloop for normal sailing. Let us know how the hunt for the boat goes and try to send some pics! Good luck!
 
#27 ·
Just looking to hear how other people feel these boats stack up against each other? I lean towards the Vancouver but like the prices of the Vega. The ones I've looked at so far all seam sea worthy however both the Vancouvers need major interior refits compared to decent interiors in the Vegas I've been to see. I prefer the Vancouvers mainly for the transom hung rudder, and I'm not a huge fan of that massive window on the Vega but I'm willing to over look that because of their reputation.

Basically I want to know of one is an inherintely and substantionally better boat or does it come down to personal preference. They both seem pretty similar overall.

Sidenote: the Vancouvers are both of the single headsail variety no cutter rigs.
Hi...I have looked at the Vega 27 as our first boat and after watching Chuck and Laura Rose's sailing series "Cruising Lealea" on You Tube it seems an amazing boat.
I'm going to search our area for the Vancouver...in the mean time we have a Halman 27 to see today.
Not to side track, but has anyone have any good info. or reviews on the Halman.
Good luck with your search!

Cheers,

Ron
 
#28 ·
For all those that are curious, I went with a Vancouver 27. When all is said and done it seemed like the best choice. The inside is nearly completely bare. There are a couple of benches, a head, some slats on the V-berth futon style to put a matteress on. A sink, chart table and, massive stainless steel compression post (This was the feature that sealed the deal over the Vega, all the Vegas I looked at had noticeable sagging under the mast inside the cabin). Other then that everything inside is bare fiberglass. Outside it has the same rigging as a Nor'sea 27 so the mast is a little taller then on a regular Van 27 and it also means the standing rigging is bulkier 5/16 instead of 3/16. This one is sloop rigged and apparantly the last one put out by Seair, hull built 83, but not commissioned until '98.

Right now she is on the hard and the mast is down so the pictures aren't the greatest but I'll post them when I get the chance.

One other thing the current owner never named her so I get that privilege.

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#29 ·
For all those that are curious, I went with a Vancouver 27. When all is said and done it seemed like the best choice. The inside is nearly completely bare. There are a couple of benches, a head, some slats on the V-berth futon style to put a matteress on. A sink, chart table and, massive stainless steel compression post (This was the feature that sealed the deal over the Vega, all the Vegas I looked at had noticeable sagging under the mast inside the cabin). Other then that everything inside is bare fiberglass. Outside it has the same rigging as a Nor'sea 27 so the mast is a little taller then on a regular Van 27 and it also means the standing rigging is bulkier 5/16 instead of 3/16. This one is sloop rigged and apparantly the last one put out by Seair, hull built 83, but not commissioned until '98.

Right now she is on the hard and the mast is down so the pictures aren't the greatest but I'll post them when I get the chance.

One other thing the current owner never named her so I get that privilege.

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Congrats. Now you get to make it the way you want it. By the way, that rigging should be able to withstand getting rolled or pitchpoled - the rigging was only 9/32 on my Columbia 43.
 
#30 ·
Congratulations on your your boat Agri! You've bought a real gem of a small cruiser. Post some pics when you can. Did you end up buying the one with the newer engine? I must say, however, that I don't envy you the work ahead of fitting out the interior! Nothing is ever straight or at right angles in a boat and it'll drive you crazy! May I suggest cardboard mock-ups before you actually start cutting wood. Good luck with the boat and keep us posted of your progress!
 
#31 ·
Thanks guys and thanks for your input as well. I didn't by the one with the newer engine, but the engine in the one I bought is not by any means near the end of its life. I'm looking forward to the challenge of fitting out the interior, I'm not in any hurry and hope to have it mostly done by March/April. I'm posting a couple of pics below.



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#32 ·
Are you in that yard at the foot of Pemberton, just past the AirCare sniffer station?
 
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