SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Boat Builders Row > Pacific Seacraft > Aluminum toe rail leak?
 Not a Member? 


Thread: Aluminum toe rail leak? Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
11-05-2012 11:26 AM
reed1v
Re: Aluminum toe rail leak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"you also need to be sure to level out the new mastic so the rail sits flat. otherwise it will leak again. " This is supposedly why C&C used butyl tape as their "caulking". Inherently flat and even, so if the bolts are torqued down fairly evenly, the seal is more reliable. In theory. Everything depends on the extent and nature of the leak. When the options include $40K I think I'd consider all the alternaives first, inclduing some baffles and a drain line to the bilge. (G)
the tape still requires lifting the deck and that is not cheap, nor easy. personally i would just leave it alone. boats are wet anyhow. its mostly cosmetic. cover the water stains with teak slats. in places the liners cover the thru bolts. you really dont want to start sledge hammering into the liner. also some of the early psc were screwed together. remove them and you're forced to go the bolt route. of course if the leak is from a mushy deck then other issues crop up. but even with a wet deck, you can sail these boats for decades unless your going to go off into hurricanes, the southern ocean, or winter storms.
11-05-2012 11:10 AM
hellosailor
Re: Aluminum toe rail leak?

"you also need to be sure to level out the new mastic so the rail sits flat. otherwise it will leak again. " This is supposedly why C&C used butyl tape as their "caulking". Inherently flat and even, so if the bolts are torqued down fairly evenly, the seal is more reliable. In theory. Everything depends on the extent and nature of the leak. When the options include $40K I think I'd consider all the alternaives first, inclduing some baffles and a drain line to the bilge. (G)
11-05-2012 07:40 AM
reed1v
Re: Aluminum toe rail leak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I don't know what PSC does, or did on that model. If they did use adhesive plus bolts, it shouldn't need to be opened again. Shouldn't be leaking.

Are you absolutely positive that is where the leak is, as opposed to that being the place where the water is showing up on the interior, perhaps after running across the underside of the deck or down from another spot?

I can't see $40k to open the deck and close it up again, are you saying PSC actually quoted that to you? Or a yard did? reed suggested a price for removing the *entire* deck from the hull. That gets way more complicated than just replacing one rail, rebedding one side. And since that's a labor intensive job and labor rates are so variable...Why not get a quote instead of a web guesstimate?
be sure to specify what you want done. if its to stop leaks, a seamless gasket around the rail will do, assuming all the deck fittings are bedded well. if its to rebed the rails, then its a lot more complicated than a two day job. btdt. a lot of the fasteners are impossible to get to from the inside. go look. a lot of the fasteners will by this time be corroded(yes stainless corrodes) and will break off. and taking the rail off may require breaking the top portion of the flange or at least chiseling out portions. you also need to be sure to level out the new mastic so the rail sits flat. otherwise it will leak again. boats move a lot structurally and seals fatigue, metals get stress induced corrosion, and glass gets hard spots.
11-04-2012 10:50 PM
hellosailor
Re: Aluminum toe rail leak?

I don't know what PSC does, or did on that model. If they did use adhesive plus bolts, it shouldn't need to be opened again. Shouldn't be leaking.

Are you absolutely positive that is where the leak is, as opposed to that being the place where the water is showing up on the interior, perhaps after running across the underside of the deck or down from another spot?

I can't see $40k to open the deck and close it up again, are you saying PSC actually quoted that to you? Or a yard did? reed suggested a price for removing the *entire* deck from the hull. That gets way more complicated than just replacing one rail, rebedding one side. And since that's a labor intensive job and labor rates are so variable...Why not get a quote instead of a web guesstimate?
11-04-2012 10:13 PM
deluxe68
Re: Aluminum toe rail leak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
deluxe-
The good news is that mechanical fasteners CAN be repaired. As opposed to a glued joint, which is "forever" and has to be cut and pried apart.
The cost will vary with your local labor costs. It ain't rocket science, just a long job requiring some contortion and an apprentice on deck, to go down the side of a boat and unbolt every fastener. Then follow the joint with a prybar to open it up, clean it out, apply new butyl tape or whatever was used before (or a sealant if "forever" sounds good and you don't mind never being able to make a repair again) and then bolt it all back up again. I'd unbolt and clean on Day One, and come back to caulk/tape/reassemble on Day Two. Actually, before Day One yo might want to take a good look, clear away obstructions, make sure you'll have the right tools, socket extensions, deep thinwall sockets, whatever your boat will require.
From a boatyard? Well, two guys, two or three days, that's 4-6 days or 32-48 hours of labor at yard rates, which can be $50-150 per hour. Three grand give or take a grand maybe? Easy enough to ask them.
According to the PSC sales brochure, they do use adhesive along with the bolts.
11-04-2012 10:08 PM
deluxe68
Re: Aluminum toe rail leak?

Big difference between $3K and $40K for a job, are we all talking about Pacific Seacrafts?
11-04-2012 07:59 PM
reed1v
Re: Aluminum toe rail leak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxe68 View Post
Any idea just how expensive?
depends. for a 40 footer probably 40-60k if the entire deck and hull need to be reattached. el cheapo way would be another alum. rail bolted down. better is a stainless rail. the flange probably stressed and may need to be epoxy bonded before mechanical tie down. would be a good idea anyhow. that would ensure against leaks. all options very labor intensive. if your going to redo the bond, probably worth 10k more to design a higher rail for better life line stanchion holding and for more foot support. good luck. btw: examined a hudson 50 . its hull/deck bond was nothing more than a bunch of plywood boards glued to the hull and deck. that was it.
11-04-2012 07:51 PM
hellosailor
Re: Aluminum toe rail leak?

deluxe-
The good news is that mechanical fasteners CAN be repaired. As opposed to a glued joint, which is "forever" and has to be cut and pried apart.
The cost will vary with your local labor costs. It ain't rocket science, just a long job requiring some contortion and an apprentice on deck, to go down the side of a boat and unbolt every fastener. Then follow the joint with a prybar to open it up, clean it out, apply new butyl tape or whatever was used before (or a sealant if "forever" sounds good and you don't mind never being able to make a repair again) and then bolt it all back up again. I'd unbolt and clean on Day One, and come back to caulk/tape/reassemble on Day Two. Actually, before Day One yo might want to take a good look, clear away obstructions, make sure you'll have the right tools, socket extensions, deep thinwall sockets, whatever your boat will require.
From a boatyard? Well, two guys, two or three days, that's 4-6 days or 32-48 hours of labor at yard rates, which can be $50-150 per hour. Three grand give or take a grand maybe? Easy enough to ask them.
11-04-2012 07:43 PM
deluxe68
Re: Aluminum toe rail leak?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
PAC relies on mechanical fastenings to hold hull and deck together. Over time they will leak and eventually separate. Expensive to reattach deck to hull but is a structural issue that needs to be done. Once a PAC is over 20y.o. Your likely to find this problem.
Any idea just how expensive?
01-09-2012 01:56 PM
reed1v PAC relies on mechanical fastenings to hold hull and deck together. Over time they will leak and eventually separate. Expensive to reattach deck to hull but is a structural issue that needs to be done. Once a PAC is over 20y.o. Your likely to find this problem.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:40 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.