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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar
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Thread: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
2 Weeks Ago 08:03 PM
MedSailor
Re: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
Our biggest concern is that we can never find a shackle to match the working loads of the chain or rope.
SeaMar over on the fisherman's terminal side of ballard has them. The have a nice selection of high quality shackles with bolts and cotter pins built in to secure the main shackle pin. They're affordable too.

MedSailor
2 Weeks Ago 11:00 AM
BubbleheadMd
Re: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar

Evans Starzinger wrote a good seminar on ground tackle. His premise was basically "using the largest ground tackle you can easily handle on a day-to-day basis will be adequate for 99% of your anchor requirements". (I paraphrased)

I used Manson's sizing guide when I bought my anchor.
My boat size and displacement fell squarely in the middle of their recommendations for the 25lb. anchor, so I didn't upsize to 35lbs.

I did upsize my rode by one size though. That's 280 feet of 5/8th 3-strand with 30 feet of 3/8th G4 chain if I remember correctly.

Here's a little anecdotal evidence:
I held my boat, plus an Ericson 35 MkII in 25+ knots all night, on a muddy bottom. That's at least 21,000 lbs and a lot of windage.

Based on that, I'd trust my ground tackle to hold my boat (by itself) in 60kts.
If anything is going to fail, it'll be the cleat ripping out of my foredeck. I need to get a beefy backing plate on that sucker.
2 Weeks Ago 10:25 AM
bvander66
Re: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar

Lot of talk about oversize or up one size for anchors. 10+ years ago this was true as the Delta/CQR vintage anchor tables were typically rated for 30 kts. Newer anchor recommendation tables are varied so the key is to read the fine print on recommendation tables. For example Rocna bases their recommendation on 50 kts. Some dont list this detail and you need to pry it out of the seller.
2 Weeks Ago 12:27 AM
SailRedemption
Re: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar

I think what barefoot is trying to say, and if he is I think I agree on it, is that the old tradition of going up a size on the anchor doesn't apply to the new generation anchors. For instance, my boat, according to mantus, needs an 85lb anchor. This is already 10lbs heavier than the 75lb CQR that was on there(I have a FX-37 21lb fortress at the moment). For me to use the old saying of go up one size, id have to opt for the 105lb Mantus, which is a HUGE jump in size and weight. I think that would be overkill for my boat. I wouldn't go down in size, but if his original anchor was a 25lb and the only anchor close to that was a ronca 22lb, yea I'd go the 22lb instead of the next size up which would be probably a 30 whatever.

I just don't agree with that notion of just going up a size or even two (125lb) that some people claim. And it may be because the new anchors haven't been around long enough to debunk that sage advice worldwide.

If it were a old anchor like claw, CQR, Bruce, etc yea oversize it definitely. But these new anchors are exceptionally good at their jobs and can't be compared. Tests prove it.

- Ronnie...on the geaux
2 Weeks Ago 12:53 PM
barefootnavigator
Re: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar

Jon, I'm not trying to convoke you of anything, this is sail net and 20,000 newbies will eventually read this thread and start putting 45lb anchors on their Catalina 27's. I'm making a point that their is a proper size for everything and when proper procedure is used that proper size works a charm. If you go back to my original response to the 30 yer old cruising boat that did just fine with an old generation anchor simply going to a new gen has been an absolute vast improvement. You don't need to hamper your boats sailing performance which is a huge safety factor by piling weight in the ends.
2 Weeks Ago 12:27 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
Dear Jon, thank you for giving me a fun job today and a walk down memory lane. I went through my log book and counted 192 days swinging on my Rocna. She is a 22lb down sized from my much loved 25lb Delta I have 30' of 5/16 chain and 250' of 1/2 three strand. Going through the notes in my log I discovered something interesting, many many pages of notes on dealing with my Delta and frustrations that I honestly couldn't remember until today. The only notes i found on the Rocna were wish I had a better way to stow it and ugly anchor. My experience is that I sized my anchor on the high side of the recommended size my Rocna but did to go up in size. My boat is 5 net tones with a fair but of windage but also a very fine bow so she rides nicely. Obviously the anchor is new to me but so far I haven't had a single issue with it. I'm looking at another 180 nights this year so more testing will come. I feel the rope chain set up is more than adequite but we will be switching to 100" this years mostly because of the nasty smell we get from the 3 strand rope as we are lazy and tend to spend a fair bit of time n one location. The chain if it needs cleaning is easy compared to the rope which is impossible. Rocna spec'ed us at 1/4 HT but without a windlass the 5/16 is easier to grip and sheds mud 10 fold better. Our biggest concern is that we can never find a shackle to match the working loads of the chain or rope. Either way we have seen some good blows and had no issues.
Not sure why you're trying to convince me of the superiority of the Rocna as an all around anchor, it's what I've chosen for my own boat, after all... Seems our point of disagreement is that you're content having one under-sized, while I simply prefer the opposite... :-)

You should be able to find a high test shackle to match whatever chain you're using from Crosby, to name one reputable manufacturer... or, you could always go with titanium, something not necessarily endorsed by everyone, but mine still looks almost as new as the day I bought it...

Nigel Calder's CRUISING HANDBOOK has a very useful section on the problems of matching shackles to chain, you might want to check it out...
2 Weeks Ago 06:57 PM
barefootnavigator
Re: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar

Dear Jon, thank you for giving me a fun job today and a walk down memory lane. I went through my log book and counted 192 days swinging on my Rocna. She is a 22lb down sized from my much loved 25lb Delta I have 30' of 5/16 chain and 250' of 1/2 three strand. Going through the notes in my log I discovered something interesting, many many pages of notes on dealing with my Delta and frustrations that I honestly couldn't remember until today. The only notes i found on the Rocna were wish I had a better way to stow it and ugly anchor. My experience is that I sized my anchor on the high side of the recommended size my Rocna but did to go up in size. My boat is 5 net tones with a fair but of windage but also a very fine bow so she rides nicely. Obviously the anchor is new to me but so far I haven't had a single issue with it. I'm looking at another 180 nights this year so more testing will come. I feel the rope chain set up is more than adequite but we will be switching to 100" this years mostly because of the nasty smell we get from the 3 strand rope as we are lazy and tend to spend a fair bit of time n one location. The chain if it needs cleaning is easy compared to the rope which is impossible. Rocna spec'ed us at 1/4 HT but without a windlass the 5/16 is easier to grip and sheds mud 10 fold better. Our biggest concern is that we can never find a shackle to match the working loads of the chain or rope. Either way we have seen some good blows and had no issues.
2 Weeks Ago 06:36 PM
eherlihy
Re: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
reminds me of this, for some reason.
2 Weeks Ago 04:56 PM
capta
Re: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar

I watched the video on the Vulcan and was not very impressed. It seems to work quite well in clean mud, but with the stock running ahead and through the bottom before the fluke (if it's still called that?) it seems in a rocky, gravel or coral bottom the stock will inhibit setting. The arc in the stock seems too extreme for many bottoms.
I'm happy enough with our Rocna; better than 65 kn winds and yet to drag an inch.
2 Weeks Ago 02:03 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Question regarding Rocna Anchor's Roll Bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by goat View Post
Thanks Marty. I've had the Vulcan on my radar for awhile, unfortunately there really hasn't been any testing on it. Another I'm curious about is a Mantus with the rollbar removed. I've seen their ad where they toss they anchor over without the rollbar and it lands upright every time, but I'm more of a 'lower the anchor' and not a 'toss the anchor' kind of guy.
I wouldn't worry about the lack of "testing" on the Vulcan... As we've seen recently in the most recent 'Anchor Test' conducted in the Chesapeake, they can be far from conclusive...

From what I can tell, the Vulcan - at least in its design - appears to be very much a copy of the Spade, which I have a fair bit of experience with, and is widely considered to be a very well-proven anchor...

Removing the roll bar from any anchor that is designed to have one, sounds like a bad idea, to me... I believe Peter Smith explains why in his description of the Vulcan, no? There's a reason for the weighted tip in the Spade and Vulcan, after all...

You might also consider a variation like the Manson Boss, although personally, I don't care much for the 'look' of that one, at all...

:-)


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