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Breasting my fin keel? Help please.

6K views 35 replies 18 participants last post by  K0RINA 
#1 · (Edited)
I would like to take advantage of mother nature's dry dock and set my Islander 28's fin keel down, tie off to support the bow, let the tide go out and have the hull out of the water. It doesn't seem like it should be a big deal. We have 10ft. of tide. There is a very robust, well protected (not sunny) location on the town pier with draft enough to more than take care of the boat's 5' needs. I can place a permanent keel block on/in the bottom myself and locate it for the boat. I can also tie a rigid standoff to the dock to tie the boat against for stability and spacing. Am I missing something? Is it possible to keep the boat level on its fin keel while dried out? I have no experience. I can certainly add a boat stand under the bow as the tide drops. I don't mind getting wet and the bottom is very hard. If this makes sense I will get busy placing a keel block. I have options there. It could be a flat block of granite or an anchored (not sure how yet perhaps bolted to the granite) 6" x 12" x 3' piece of hemlock. Suggestions on how this is done will be most welcome.

Thanks,

Down
 
#3 ·
James,

At first that question puzzled me. Just for a couple of seconds until I realized that my situation is probably not "mainstream"? The reason is to have access to the hull below the waterline without putting on my scuba gear. All the reasons from inspecting, removing pot warps from the shaft, cleaning, zincs, painting, ... It also would make keeping the boat in the water for 12 months without paying Hinckley or Morris $10.00/foot to lift it,not to mention the mast, or haul it to a storage location for annual stuff.

I have the gear. I have the time. It would be much simpler than having a yard involved. I also have an excellent location. Town dock, breasting location for lobster boats, no parking conflicts, very hard bottom, 5 minute drive from my house with a single stop sign. Not crowded, protected, I can row out to the boat and have it at the dock in 15 minutes. I am retired! A big plus! Skipping a year's haul / storage expense, not to mention having the boat all year long. ( It rains every month here.) All of those seem like good reasons to me.

There must be lots of folks in the PNW that do this?

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#4 ·
People dry out their boats all the time in parts of Europe. Search the web for that term and you should get some info. I have seen pictures of boats leaning against a wall or with lines out to stabilize. I have also seen boats modern boats sitting on their bulb keels with no support at all.

Gene
 
#6 ·
I have no experience with tides being on the great lakes but we do get water level variations of several feet due to wind. You said the bottom under you is hard. The one caution I'd give is that in our case, as the keel is starting to touch the bottom small waves can lift and drop the boat and it can hit pretty hard. Once it's firmly seated it's fine, but as water is going out and coming back it can pound.
 
#7 · (Edited)
That is a good point. I expect I will choose the conditions carefully and work when there is little activity in SH. The location is behind our dinghy docks which kills wakes. Perhaps that is the consideration which determines what I use for the keel block. A large hemlock timber 6"x12"x3' anchored to a granite base perhaps.

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#9 ·
if you don't mind getting wet then why not dive on the boat to inspect. scraping painting a bottom on the beach does not seem to be very environmentally responsible to me. are you the only one that lives in this town and uses our oceans? For me the risk due to the learning curve would not be worth the $ 280 haul fee. how much work can you do in the couple of hours you will have after you get the boat secure. the tide does come back in. seems like it would be non stop work for 12 hours with no time for a break. so a real show for the whole town
 
#11 ·
I don't think there is an environmental concern. I am a diver and can clean the bottom that way. Compared to swimming to scrub the hull I will take standing in the clear air any day. The difference in time and effort will be huge if all I need to do is tie the boat up and wait for the tide to go out. $280.00 is a good day's pay for this retired old salt. No one will pay any attention unless it is a curious tourist.

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#14 ·
You might see if any ports arount there have a tide grid. Our Port of Poulsbo in Puget Sound has one that they charge $25 per day to use. They do not allow bottom cleaning any more due to environmental concerns. I helped a friend change a prop on his Slocum 43, but that is not a fin keel. Don't think I would ever try to put my Catalina 47 on it.

With a tide grid, you have massive timbers on the bottom, and a secure place to tie to on the side as the tide goes out. You want the boat heeled over slightly against the piling as the water recedes. Also there is a built in ladder to get up to the dock.
 
#15 ·
down, you're not crazy, some folks just have no concept of tradition and think there's always enough money to throw it to outside vendors.

Make sure you've got a bottom you can stand the keel on, preferably without the hemlock block. If you need to put a "ring" on the bottom and fill it with a couple of bags of QuikCrete to give you a level spot, so be it. With a bit of a notch to center the keel.

Traditionally, you'd use two "legs", each from a 2x4 or pipe with some type of foot on the bottom to spread the load, set one forward and one aft on the outboard side to help keep the boat from rocking fore and aft as well as holding it upright against the pier. Lsah on to the pier tightly and do make sure that whatever you're tied to, isn't going to pull out and give folks a show.<G>

Aim bow in, so the rudder is in deeper water, because if the rudder kisses a rock bottom, that can be an expensive kiss.
 
#19 ·
down, you're not crazy,
Hello, That is a relief. I have been accused of that more than once over the years and this is one of the "ideas" I had not even considered on the fringe. Ha!

This forum and these replies are priceless. Having access to this collection of kindred spirits is amazing!

Deciding on how to prepare the bottom to set the keel down on is coming together. I like the idea of a firm base without the hemlock block. My location is along the eastern shore of a N/S harbor. The harbor has a muddy/sandy bottom but along this shore beautiful red granite is the material the town dock is built on, made of and composes the rubble that I will be sitting on. I can prepare the exact location by simply doing a bit of "yard work" on the area. It will give me a crushed granite base on bedrock (already in place) and I can top it with some of the finer material. Leveling it won't be a problem. A coarse granite sand bed will provide good "grip" and should clean any life away. Pouring "Quickcreet" might garner a bit of attention here without a folder full of permits. Leveling a spot in the "gravel" to set my boat on will be respected.

Bow in for sure. Outboard legs, too.

Thanks,

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#16 ·
Careening is laying her over on her side as the tide drops or winched over by the mast if no beach. Newfies replace the schooners keel like this at a deepwater dock. If you have a nice steep protected bank you can lay her on.!! On the coast here, I often laid down deadmen i( 4 ft of 6x6 beach log) with a wire strop to take the buoyancy of the grid timbers floated in on the next tide. At least 18 inch x 20 ft ( I'm 22 tonnes and 15 beam) All this along side a federal dock to take the deck and mast lines secure. By the time I was on the grid, the bay would be full of boats waiting their turn. Most larger communities had these already but I preferred the outback. and we all had full keel cruising or converted fish boat hulls (w00d) I've seen a few finkeels standing on their noses waiting for a rising tide. Lots can go wrong but not to worry. Fiberglass is so much stronger and will likely withstand falling over. It's the filling tide that is really annoying.
 
#17 ·
The
Brits do this a lot with fin keel boats. Their Practical Boat Owner had an article on various ways of drying out. If I can find my copy I'll send info. When I did it on a gird here some notes:
Need to kn ow where the bottom of the keel is and what it's going to land on. Maybe not a problem with your situation but with a grid you could end missing the right fore and aft placement.
Use a hallyard made down to the dockside so that you're sure that as the tide goes down the boat will lean into the pilings. big problem if it leans the other way.
Need a way to hold the bow and stern up, like lined or a 2x4 underneath otherwise you won't be able to walk fore and aft of the fin.
it's nice to have a ladder to get up on the boat easily.
The tide will return. If you pull a thru hull have a way to secure the hole if Murphy's Law prevails on the project. Happened to me.
 
#18 ·
/\OK found the PBO article Oct 2009, “drying out on piles”. Here's a summary from people who do this a lot:
Step 1 Preparations
Survey the bottom. Concrete or gravel? Gravel/sand is better as it allows the keel to take up and minimize rocking movement. Try to avoid a sloped bottom as it can be tricky. Check out another boat doing it.
Check the tide tables, want to know how much time you will have and whether the next high tide will float you off. Here in the PNW tides are uneven.
Arrive early to allow time to set up
Know your tie-up strategy so the lines and fenders are ready to go
Step 2 Coming alongside
Try to be alongside two pilings. If not you’ll need extra lines to keep the boat from pivoting in a breeze.
It can help to have one of the pilings in line with the mast, as it gives you a strong point for a breast line that’s over the keel. Will need to watch the spreaders so the piling doesn't foul the rigging.
String fenders fore and aft against the piling or have two fenders with a board across as a fender board
Make sure you lines will slide up the pilings as the tide rises.
Have spring lines so the boat can’t slip forwards and backwards. The longer the better to help with the slope of the bottom
Step 3 Taking ground
As the water recedes keep an eye on the trim. Add extra springs if the boat is setting oddly. For example if she’s settling by the bow pressure on the bow spring will help control it.
Fenders may try to ride up as the tide drops be prepared to kick them down
Shifting weight fore and aft can help with unexpected movement.
Be prepared to adjust lines as you go down. They may snag in the piling. Once you touch bottom pull the breast lines in tight to compress the fenders and steady the boat.
Step 4 while dried out
Start with the keel and work up buys you extra time
Tide chart will tell you the time you have
Step 5 floating free
Keep an eye on the lines to make sure they’re not snagged and holding the boat down
As you float free you may need to burp the stern gland
Remember to undo the halyard before getting underway
 
#20 ·
Walt,

Thank you for tracking the article down. You have been very helpful. Several things I hadn't considered that could make all the difference. Planning for a strong point for a breast line that’s over the keel is something I will go take a look at after I send this. I am fortunate to live close to the dock and it won't be a problem to build a pre rigged "stand off" to act as a purchase and fender board that I can throw into the pickup and hang off the dock when I head down for a day of bottom work.

I have the exact measurements/locations, a granite/oak pier lined with oak pilings, firm bottom, 10' of tide, excellent protection, plenty of lines and I can even add boat stands as the tide goes out if I want to. A bow support would be easy. First in last out as the work progresses.

Perhaps I will ask the town to install a gin pole. To help the fishermen unload lobster traps and gear? Ha!

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#21 ·
Capt

"It's the filling tide that is really annoying." Yup! There must be limits to the hull shape that can stand careening. I am guessing the I-28 is well outside them. I wonder what they are? I have wondered if, in an emergency, I could careen on top of my Avon and with its added buoyancy, keep ahead of the incoming water as I lifted on the tide. Bob Perry might have an opinion. It is his creation.

I can repair the fiberglass.

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#36 ·
Capt

"It's the filling tide that is really annoying." Yup! There must be limits to the hull shape that can stand careening. I am guessing the I-28 is well outside them. I wonder what they are? I have wondered if, in an emergency, I could careen on top of my Avon and with its added buoyancy, keep ahead of the incoming water as I lifted on the tide. Bob Perry might have an opinion. It is his creation.

I can repair the fiberglass.

Down
Now THAT is a GOOD idea
 
#22 ·
Careening on top of an Avon just might go "POP!" and blow it out.

Bob Perry is only to blame for the good things on the I28, apparently Islander messed around with his plans, changing a keel-stepped mast to the deck-stepped one with the crazy support pieces and fiddling around with the head and starboard settee as part of the process. And someone upstairs must have nudged Bob's hand, because boats designed by mortals alone just don't balance that well.<G>

A couple of used tires might come in handy as extra fenders. They may leave black scuffs but that beats all hell out of gouges. Some extra lines, heavy lines, and a spare hand too. And the videographer of course, you know this needs to be utubed!
 
#23 ·
It might pop the old Avon. I have seen some amazing air bladder lifts that worked because the pressure was so well distributed. It would be carrying a very small load since the lead would be down. The constant hull flair wouldn't help. It sure helps with performance and looks! I have no pans to try it. Ha!

I am co-opting the deck stepped mast A/La Ed and Ellen Zacko's solution. The head is very small but it is a small boat. I did install a Levac. I put the pump behind the bulkhead to the right of the sink counter. A tight fit with an anti siphon loop. That saved a little room. It also offers a second manual bilge pump if I can find the time to install a Y valve on the suction side.

Fenders I have plenty of. All sizes. Many in sacrificial condition. Aged to perfection!

Down
 
#24 ·
down, someone used to sell those air bladder lifts for CARS to be used as jacks, complete with a little compressor. I don't know if they're still being sold and I'm sure they weren't "commercial" grade, but that's something to consider. I've also heard of folks using a basketball (thrift shop!) to lift an engine a few inches, so maybe there's something too.
 
#26 ·
Mitiempo,

Thanks for these. The PNW is a lot like downeast when it comes to the tide ranges. Grids are familiar here, too. Our Perry, ME farm enjoys an 18' , twice daily, average range on Passamaquoddy Bay. Many long established yards have them. TravelLifts took a bite out of the practice. Your 4th photo looks a lot like my location without the grid. I think the procedure is very doable for me here. The concern I have about balancing on a 2' fin that is rounded on its bottom edge looks manageable. Rather than a grid or even a block I think my initial effort will simply use a carefully prepared location in the firm gravel.

Thank you for going to the effort to share these.

Down
 
#27 ·
The first time you do this is always the most interesting... until you try it (or unless you know someone with a sistership that knows) you won't know whether or not the boat will tend bow down or stern down.

You can support the 'heavy' end with straps or lines off of sturdy cleats, the 'weight' is often just a relatively low 'out of balance' amount, not usually anything too significant.

I've seen people with similar boats (Ericson 27 and Catalina 27) raft up together and then dry out on a flat beach.. both boats ended up nose down, but upright as they were tied together.. not sure I'd try it but they got away with it that time...
 
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