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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Changing registered flag from Spain to UK
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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-13-2012 07:28 PM
PCP
Re: Changing registered flag from Spain to UK

Congratulations on the new boat and it seems all was easy and agreeable.

I bought mine to a lawyer...jesus

Regards

Paulo
11-13-2012 06:31 PM
Mariner62
Re: Changing registered flag from Spain to UK

Well the deal is done and dusted, and my new ship is safely tucked away on the hardstand at the Marina awaiting my return in the spring.

Things didn't quite play out as planned (do they ever ??), but we stayed flexible and retained a sense of humour :-)

Firstly it turned out that the broker we had spoken with had no representation in Cadiz, so the owner showed us over the boat last Monday afternoon after we arrived in Spain. That worked perfectly, and the owner who is Swiss and his wife who is German had clearly looked after the boat superbly. She is a 2005 Beneteau 423 with less than 500 hours on the engine and less than 1800 miles on the log. We wanted to continue ...

We asked to survey and test sail the vessel on Tuesday. We had been trying to line up a surveyor, but could not get one to attend at the right time, for a reasonable fee, who could speak reasonable English. So we decided to do it ourselves.

The owner tried to contact the broker by phone and email, but no response, so he agreed himself to do the test sail with us at lunchtime Tuesday and organised the slipping for us with the Marina on Tuesday afternoon. He allowed us to have the keys first thing on Tuesday morning.

So on Tuesday morning I checked out all the technical and structural items while my first mate (wife) checked out the domestic side of things. Ticks all round. Test sail with the owner - tick. Slipped and inspected the hull and underwater gear - hull a bit grubby - needs antifouled, but otherwise ... tick.

So on Tuesday afternoon, we announce to the owner "we would like to buy your boat !" Unfortunately the owner still can't get in contact with the broker, so we decide to do it ourselves. (DIY ... there's a theme building here !)

Wednesday - I write my own "Contract to Buy a Yacht", stitch in a couple of Attachments to cover the inventory and a suitable Bill of Sale with a side by side Spanish translation. All thanks to Google's translation facility, corrected slightly by the rather bemused girl at Reception. Apparently Spanish terminology for "unencumbered" can be easily confused with pregnancy!!

Thursday we agree the fine details with the owner and make contact with a local agency who can assist us with the paperwork for deregistration and the Hoja de Asiento etc.

Friday, the owner runs the contract past his lawyer, who made no changes (unheard of in my world) and we agree the contract paperwork. Paperwork delivered to the agency, who showed me a clear title extract and VAT paid evidence. Translated with Google again !

Weekend - first mate and I take a side trip to Gibralter while the owner empties the boat. We meet on Sunday night to sign up the contract, bill of sale and organise the funds to be transferred to the owner.

Monday - organised insurance, organised storage at the marina, bought some new stuff, met with agency to inspect the application to deregister in Spain. Prepared boat for slipping.

Tuesday - slipped boat, cleaned hull, dropped sails etc and generally made ready for winterisation (if that's what you call it in Cadiz !). Collected stamped copy of application to deregister - so job done.

Now we just have to escape from Spain - and with the general strike planned for tomorrow this could be very difficult !!!

Happy sailing to all.
11-02-2012 12:17 AM
PaulinVictoria
Re: Changing registered flag from Spain to UK

Good grief. In the olden days we'd have just pulled the fleet together, sailed down and taken it.
11-01-2012 06:17 AM
Zanshin
Re: Changing registered flag from Spain to UK

Good onya! Sounds like you now have a plan and procedures in place. #6 really is easy to do online.
10-31-2012 05:10 PM
Mariner62
Re: Changing registered flag from Spain to UK

Hi Guys,
What a difference a day makes to a learning curve

My understanding now is that it will happen as follows:

1. We will get a Bill of Sale (in Spanish and English) from the broker.

2. We will get a document showing VAT is paid, and also a copy translated to English, from the broker.

3. We will get a document showing that the title is free and clear. This comes from the "Regsiter of Movable Property", and will be provided by the seller (via the broker).

4. The broker will engage an agency to de-flag the vessel from the Spanish register. The cost for this is EUR180.

5. There is NO TAX to pay (and therefore no requirement to have NIE). This is because we are not Spanish residents, and are not flagging the boat in Spain.

6. Finally, we will flag her on the UK SSR registry (Part III), which it appears can be done online with MCA without too much fuss.

Ok, so that's the theory ... give me a week and I'll come back and let you know how the practice works out
10-30-2012 09:20 PM
PCP
Re: Changing registered flag from Spain to UK

As you cannot probably speak Spanish an internet search would be difficult in what regards to find an agency in Spain.

The key words are: abanderamiento that means putting a flag on a boat and matriculación that means register.

I found some agencies for you. I guess that if you email them they will accept the work or point you for an agency nearer your boat:

NAUTIDOC

ERP servicios juridicos y navales, Gestorias nauticas; matriculacion, abanderamiento embarcaciones

Registro buques | Abanderamiento | GMM Abogados Maritimo mercantil

Navegar seguro, el seguro de barco más económico

Náutica Legal - Abogados - Servicios
10-30-2012 08:32 PM
PCP
Re: Changing registered flag from Spain to UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariner62 View Post
Thanks Zanshin and PCP.

I'm starting to get my mind around the problem now.

The other thing I have found out is that I also need to get an "NIE" which is a Spanish Tax ID number. This seems to be needed by the yacht buyer, and would appear to take many weeks to get. I have to go to Spain, present the application and supporting documents at a (suitable) Police Station.

Then, some weeks later (between 1 and 6 I believe) my NIE will be ready for me to collect. BUT they dont tell me when its ready, I just need to go back to the Police Station from time to time and ask if its ready! Hilarious!

There are apparently other ways to do it through the Spanish consulate in the UK, but they all seem to take many weeks. Seems like my thoughts of flying in to Spain on Monday, and leaving on Friday as the new owner of the boat are somewhat pie in the sky.

..
I bought recently a boat in Italy and need also an Italian tax number. The sell was mediated by an agency that took care of everything. I only had to go there to sign the papers. They also took care of the boat transfer and to register the boat in my name. In fact the bureaucratics are so heavy that I am still waiting for some papers regarding the radio licence (in my name) that take many months to be delivered (in Italy).

Were is the boat?

Regards

Paulo
10-30-2012 07:15 PM
Mariner62
Re: Changing registered flag from Spain to UK

Thanks Zanshin and PCP.

I'm starting to get my mind around the problem now.

The other thing I have found out is that I also need to get an "NIE" which is a Spanish Tax ID number. This seems to be needed by the yacht buyer, and would appear to take many weeks to get. I have to go to Spain, present the application and supporting documents at a (suitable) Police Station.

Then, some weeks later (between 1 and 6 I believe) my NIE will be ready for me to collect. BUT they dont tell me when its ready, I just need to go back to the Police Station from time to time and ask if its ready! Hilarious!

There are apparently other ways to do it through the Spanish consulate in the UK, but they all seem to take many weeks. Seems like my thoughts of flying in to Spain on Monday, and leaving on Friday as the new owner of the boat are somewhat pie in the sky.

Zanshin, I'd love to do this stuff myself, just for the experience, but I have almost no Spanish language, and I am not resident there so I will probably need to retain someone to work on my behalf.

I think I will go and start the process on Monday by viewing the boat and getting survey done, and maybe by spring time I will own the boat

I'll keep the thread updated for ayone who is interested in the saga!
10-30-2012 01:10 PM
Zanshin
Re: Changing registered flag from Spain to UK

The actual costs, if you take care of the items yourself, are quite a bit less and usually a reputable boat broker in Spain will assist you for a nominal fee - or as part of the deal if you are going through a broker.

First the vessel needs a viable bill of sale that will also have to be translated into English. Since the VAT has been paid you will also need receipts and translations to English so that the UK will accept it - and make sure that the actual sale of the vessel occurs in EU waters otherwise the VAT-paid-status will go -poof-.

Taking the vessel off the Spanish flag (de-flagging) should be simple with the correct documents and for someone who reads/speaks Spanish. Once the vessel is de-flagged then putting her on the Part III or Part I British registry is very simple and costs just a couple of GBP (see http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-hom...guidetoreg.htm).

The boat doesn't have to go anywhere close to the U.K. in order to get flagged. If you go for a Part I registration then you will just get a provisional registration until such time as you have an approved surveyor do a tonnage survey, and I'm sure that there are many in Spain. The boat does not need to leave the water for this and I paid around US$400 or so for the survey on a 57' vessel.

The best approach would be to contact the MCA (they are very responsive in my experience) and ask exactly what paperwork from Spain they require as they will have done this before.

If you want to have a company do everything then you will have to swallow some huge fees, but actual costs for flagging are going to be less then 120GBP and the de-flagging should be even cheaper.
10-30-2012 10:09 AM
PCP
Re: Changing registered flag from Spain to UK

You have just to look on the internet:

http://results.yachting-pages.com/na...ry/gibraltar/0

Gibraltar Companies, Trusts, Yacht Registration, Residency, Offshore

The Red Ensign - English - British Flag

Offshore boat registration. Registering a yacht in advantageous offshore jurisdictions

I don't know were you have the boat but if you ask to the broker that sell you the boat I am sure he will be able to point you to a local agency. You may compare prices with British ones.

Regards

Paulo
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