SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

HMS Bounty in trouble...

278K views 2K replies 105 participants last post by  PCP 
#1 ·
The HMS Bounty is a tall ship that was built in Nova Scotia in 1961 for the MGM movie "Mutiny on the Bounty", starring Marlon Brando...she appears to be in trouble from Hurricane Sandy.

From ABC News:
2:55 AM EDT: Coast Guard spokesman David Weydert tells ABC News, "The Coast Guard received notification that the sailing vessel HMS Bounty was in distress. We responded by sending out a C-130 aircraft and we're currently monitoring the situation."

And the ships website confirms she is in harms way:
TallShipBounty.org

I sure hope this story has a happy ending.
 
#432 ·
OK I give. Pualo Rather than sully my self with this anymore and give you the satisfaction of a reply, I think it is better to ignore you than to continue to subject others to this. Only the second time I felt compelled to put a SN memeber on ignore. Life is good. carry on

dave
 
#441 ·
Ok peoples let me be quite plain ....

This thread is right on the knifes edge of being simply closed and deleted from view.

The language and accusations would be a worry in Off Topic. In General Discussion they are way out of line.

Come on peoples, keep it civil.
 
#452 ·
Paulo--- I have been a silent reader for awhile now. I am enjoying all of your conversations. I am a volunteer with the Philadelphia Ship Preservation Guild that now owns the Tall Ship Gazela. I just sailed on her for the first time this past summer from her Home Port in Philadelphia, PA to Newport, RI for a tall ship festival. We do not chase hurricanes and have a very well established sailing guideline. She will NOT sail in certain conditions or if those conditions may be in her path. We will hold at the dock until those conditions are clear even if on a schedule. The mission statement of the guild is to not only pass on the old sailing traditions, but also the old ways of maintaining a wooden ship. We also want to be able to pass her along to future generations, so that they can learn and enjoy her too. She is irreplaceable, as you would know.

I have seen the Bounty, but I was never on her. I only met two crew members once as I was asked to give a below deck tour of Gazela. The gossip is that she had maintence issues. Yes, I did state gossip for all those that may be critical of passing information on unsubtaniated. GOSSIP I SAY !!!!!!!!

I could not post any links because I am new, but I did read an article that contains the following:

The US Navy North Atlantic Sub Base is in New London/Groton, CT.
The five submarines that were in port remained there to ride out the storm. The US Coast Guards Training Ship-- the Barque Eagle was also there and remained in port. She is a steel hulled training ship for the Coast Guard, but she is a fully rigged three masted sailng ship carrying five yards on her main mast.
 
#455 ·
Thanks for posting. I love traditional boats and I have owned and recovered a small one. Take good care of Gazela, that's a very nice ship.

When I was a kid I, as many Lisbon inhabitants, went every year to the river banks to say goodbye to the white fleet and Gazela was one of the ships sailing out with the fleet.

"The barquentine Gazela Primeiro (meaning Gazelle the First in Portuguese) was built in the shipyard of J. M. Mendes in Setúbal, Portugal in 1901. At that time the Portuguese fisheries authorities had a regulation prohibiting the construction of new vessels for the Grand Banks cod fishery.

Gazela was built to carry fishermen to the Grand Banks of Newfoundland. Every spring she would leave Lisbon, laden with as many as 35 dories stacked on deck like drinking cups, a crew of 40 men (35 fishermen/sailors, two cooks, two mates and the captain), and a couple of apprentices. Her cargo hold would be full of salt as ballast. The salt would be used for the fish that were caught (cod, flounder, halibut, haddock and perch), preserving them for the long trip home. The Gazela could stow upwards of 350 tons of salted fish in her holds.

Gazela was engine-less until 1938, when a Mannheim-Benz diesel engine was installed. With the depletion of cod on the Grand Banks, vessels were being forced to fish the Davis Strait, between Greenland and Newfoundland. The contrary winds and frequent icebergs in this area made life difficult for ships without engines. To accommodate the propeller, a new rudder post was installed and her counter was extended approximately 10-12 feet, giving her a long overhanging transom.

After a remarkably long commercial career, Gazela's last voyage to the Banks as a commercial fishing ship was made in 1969."

 
#453 ·
YukonJack,

You're a voice of reason that well articulates what many of us think was very wrong with Bounty's decision making. Unfortunately, it is abundantly clear that Bounty had a culture of risk taking, evidenced by both the Capt and the crew's statements, even if exaggerated. Most professional skippers that I know, including a couple of Admirals, are more likely to brag about how squared away they are than their exploits.
 
#461 · (Edited)
Does not sound like Dock Master forced him out:
Debate rages about Bounty captain's decision to set sail | The Chronicle Herald

"He said he wanted to get to the southeast quadrant and ride the storm out," said New London Dockmaster Barbara Neff. No one raised objections.

Also from article:
"Walbridge's friends and former crew members described him as a skilled captain who had a good plan that didn't work because of mechanical problems. The ship lost power, which meant it had no propulsion and could not pump out water, according to the vessel's website. The surviving crew members have not publicly detailed what happened."
 
#463 ·
#462 ·
Another read from:

HMS Bounty captain Robin Walbridge remembered as quiet, humble - Tampa Bay Times

"The decision to set sail rather than remain at port is now being second-guessed.

But Bredeson, who wanted to sail on that trip but was told to join the crew in St. Petersburg instead, said Mr. Walbridge would have weighed the storm against the dangers of staying docked.

In port, a 412-ton ship or its spars could easily have been tossed into other ships or onto land, endangering other lives.

Besides, Bredeson said, "All of those conditions the Bounty has been through before."

His wife said she received an email from her husband during the storm. In the blur of events, she does not remember exactly when it arrived.

"He said they were taking on water and they might have to abandon ship," she said.

She said her husband probably died trying to help Christian, a distant granddaughter of original Bounty mutineer Fletcher Christian and a new sailor.

That would be just like Mr. Walbridge, she believes - the most experienced sailor on board risking his life to save a rookie."
 
#465 ·
From my understanding, the ship was supposed to be in St. Petersburg, along with the Picton Castle. Right?

The captain said he wanted to get to the southeast quadrant of hurricane Sandy.

Where would the ship have to be to make the southeast quadrant of hurricane Sandy? The storm was huge. So to get to that point, wouldn't Walbridge have to take the ship considerably out of the way, on his trip to St. Petersburg, to reach the southeast quadrant of the storm? Once you've squeezed past the western edge, why would you circle around the southern edge, then head east, to get to the southeast quadrant if your destination was St. Petersburg?

Am I missing something here?
 
#467 ·
I was thinking another similar article said he was trying to get to the southwest of the eye of the huricane, which makes more sense- I am trying to find that article now. Perhaps news reporters get their directions mixed up.
 
#472 ·
Fully agree he was trying to sail at least towards the hurricane. But which quadrant was he trying to make it to? He says (or at leasted reporters quoted), he was trying to make the southeast quad, but would that not mean head winds and head seas in the direction he was trying to go? Would not southwest have been better with following seas and aft winds?
 
#491 ·
Southwest was clearly the one he was going for, based on the satellite tracking of the ship's position. I do believe that would be to get the wind behind him on that trip.
Agreed. SW. Trying to make sense of this course in the context of the weather forecasts available (once they were already committed and out at sea), the first time that the Advisories made any mention that the track for the storm might eventually turn west of north was in the "48 hr Outlook" section of the 5pm advisory on Sat. 27th. at which time the actual movement of the storm was still NE:

500 PM EDT SAT OCT 27 2012

SUMMARY OF 500 PM EDT...2100 UTC...INFORMATION
----------------------------------------------
LOCATION...30.2N 75.2W
ABOUT 335 MI...540 KM ESE OF CHARLESTON SOUTH CAROLINA
ABOUT 345 MI...555 KM S OF CAPE HATTERAS NORTH CAROLINA
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...75 MPH...120 KM/H
PRESENT MOVEMENT...NE OR 35 DEGREES AT 13 MPH...20 KM/H
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...961 MB...28.38 INCHES...

SANDY IS MOVING
TOWARD THE NORTHEAST NEAR 13 MPH...20 KM/H...AND THIS GENERAL MOTION
IS FORECAST TO CONTINUE THROUGH SUNDAY. A TURN TOWARD THE NORTH IS
FORECAST SUNDAY NIGHT...FOLLOWED BY A TURN TOWARD THE NORTH-
NORTHWEST
ON MONDAY. ON THE FORECAST TRACK THE CENTER OF SANDY
WILL MOVE PARALLEL TO THE SOUTHEAST COAST OF THE UNITED STATES
THROUGH THE WEEKEND...AND APPROACH THE COAST OF THE MID-ATLANTIC
STATES LATE MONDAY.

If the Bounty's forecasts while offshore were limited to these text advisories, that would be the first time they would have had a definitive prediction that the storm would track anywhere other than NE and later N. By then the decision to head SW to try to dodge AHEAD of the storm and make the SW quadrant had already been made, and they were committed to that course of action.

The first Advisory to mention that the actual movement of the storm had changed from NE to North was released at 02:00am on Monday 29th, by which time the storm had already wreaked its havoc on the vessel, and spat it out in its south western quadrant.
 
#619 ·
Southwest was clearly the one he was going for, based on the satellite tracking of the ship's position. I do believe that would be to get the wind behind him on that trip.

Which he actually said seems unclear.
I was thinking about that interview with the Capt before departure. In the interview the Capt made a circle with his thumbs and forefinger stating he wanted to take the ship into the position of his right thumb (SE part of Sandy), article said no crew questioned him. Interesting he was telling the crew he was going to take the ship into head winds and seas (while trying to go south) and no one said "hey Capt, don't you mean your left thumb" (SW part of sandy), where apparently he actually went with stern winds and waves not off the bow.

Seems no one questioned the Capt.- ever.
 
#475 ·
Okay. There are some facts already. Broadcast crew interview, satellite tracking, hurricane forecast, etc, etc.

I've read all sorts of examples of things that might mitigate the bad decision to set sail on this voyage, but are there any facts yet that suggest any mitigant?

Suggestions I've heard that have not been supported by evidence I've seen:

Captain may have been forced to go by employer
Ship may have failed despite the storm
Harbor may have made them leave
They were trying to save the boat

It's been over a week and this story has received national media coverage. If there was another side to this story, it seems we would have begun to hear something.

There are 14 survivors and, unless they have been gagged, the 6 degrees of separation seems it would have brought something less damning to light by now.
 
#478 ·
Suggestions I've heard that have not been supported by evidence I've seen:Minnewaska
It's been over a week and this story has received national media coverage. If there was another side to this story, it seems we would have begun to hear something-Minnewaska
So the assumption here is that all facts should be discovered by the media and out by a week....hmmmmmm. Interesting standard both time wise and who discovers and uncovers facts
 
#480 ·
If you don't want people attributing things to you that you didn't actually say, then make your posts a little more readable. All of this color changing, bold, font size change, etc, makes it difficult to differentiate between what you are saying and what you are re-posting (without the use of any quotation notation). -Brewgyver
Dont waste your time hear. He doesnt understand all the bold is poor internet etiquette and means shouting even though he has been told this repeatedly. In addition the posts are full of conjecture, inuendo, and suspect validity he passes off as facts. gCaptain is a social media site like Sailnet, Twitter and Facebook

Dave
 
#482 ·
Well when the coast guard left the scene the ships mast were still above the water, so the ship had not completely sunk. For all we know the ship could still be floating, unless you want to assume it did sink after the CG left the scene.
 
#483 ·
Remember while you attack me I am not saying the the Captain isnt responsible. I am saying there are many facts not discovered as of yet. The investigation will take a long time, but I am confident that ALL the facts will come out. This doesnt mean I beleive the Captains responsibility will be absolved. IMHO I beleive other contributing factors will be found and other will also be held responsible. Note: I am identifying that statement as my opinion only, not as fact... a humble sailor
 
#484 · (Edited)
No one is attacking you. Just pointing out the fact that we as humans make assumptions. Even the CG report will make assumptions based on evidence and experience of the examiner.

I too egerly wait for the CG report. That report may find some amazing evidence that shows the Capt made a remarkable and correct decision to take the ship to sea.

I also hope the CG report will examine the sailing qualities of the Bounty. Was she a motor/sail? What type weather could she handle and how close to windward could she sail? Was her ballasting correct (notice in records some major changes had been made to the ballast type and location)?
 
#488 ·
I asked if there were any facts that contradicted the damning ones we have. Are there?
The only damning facts appear to be about the captain. All others may come out in time. May actually take longer than 7 days and may take professionals to root them out/
Proably why the have professionals not media or bloggers on investigative boards

My answer is that all the facts may not be in evidence yet, they may not be discovered in 7 days or by the media
 
#489 ·
.....My answer is that all the facts may not be in evidence yet, they may not be discovered in 7 days or by the media
I'm sure all the facts are not in evidence yet. But, conversationally, with 14 survivors, I would expect to have heard at least one fact by now to suggest there should be anything other than the damning opinions drawn by most. Just one, not all.

By the way, the famous "six degrees of separation" has been scientifically proven to be only about 2 degrees now, because of the internet. That suggests to me that it is statistically impossible to think we haven't heard of one mitigating fact out there by now from 14 people.

Time will tell.
 
#501 · (Edited)
That would be something the crew would know for sure.

Anyway, this is an issue that I think got very confused due to the SW/SE confusion. Its clear from their path that they weren't making any serious effort to get East of the storm, but some initially said they were. It seems most likely that they were just heading south until they got a better idea of where they needed to be to catch the Western side. As it turned out, the storm headed West, so they needed to make the most dramatic adjustment. That's my theory.
 
#511 ·
If he were asked, not ordered, to leave by port officials it would not be surprising that it would be kept quiet, indeed even covered up by politicians. There still could have been a whole host of reasons prompting him to leave that would not easily come to light. I'll wait to see what mitigating information emerges. Of course he should have resisted any coercion and has the ultimate responsibility but we may hear things that make us less ready to hang him by the yardarm in effigy.
 
#518 ·
:hotheadOwners page is all hog wash, there is something not right about what's going on, they hired a person to try and salvage the boat but the lady kills family posted they haven't got a call or even a coffee. Bounty corp Facebook page deleting anyone who as questions and insults the family.. Pretty insane read. Groups called hms bounty in retrospect.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top