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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Living Aboard > Water Filteration
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-27-2013 03:55 PM
guitarguy56
Re: Water Filteration

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
NSF/FDA wants ALL potable municipal water filtered to 1,2ÁM (99.99%).
Rich... this is good news... regarding what we need to filter and insure we don't drink is beyond this forum... but here is a list of the contaminants allowed to be in municipal water whether natural occurring or introduced through other mechanisms...

Source: NSF

"All sources of drinking water contain some naturally occurring contaminants. At low levels, most of these contaminants are not considered by the EPA to be harmful. Naturally occurring contaminants include radon, radium, and arsenic. In addition, people, animals, and industry can also add contaminants to our water supplies. Some of the more common contaminants that can be introduced into our water supplies include microorganisms, pesticides, and nitrates.
Below is a list of many of the common contaminants that can be found in public and private drinking water supplies. In addition, we have also included several chemicals commonly used to treat our drinking water supplies. If you would like to see further information on a specific contaminant, please select that contaminant."

2,4,5-TP
2,4-D
Alachlor
Arsenic
Asbestos
Atrazine
Bacteria
Barium
Cadmium
Carbufuran
Chloramine
Chlordane
Chlorides
Chlorine
Chlorination By-Products
Chromium
Copper
Cryptosporidium
Cysts
Dibromochloropropane
Ethylene Dibromide
Fluoride
Hardness
Heptachlor Epoxide
Hydrogen Sulfide
Lead
Lindane
Mercury
Methoxychlor
MTBE
o-dichlorobenzene
Nitrate
Nitrite
Particulate Matter
PCB
Perchlorates
Radium
Radon
Selenium
Sodium
Sulfates
Styrene
Taste and Odor
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS)
Toxaphene
Trichloroethylene (TCE)
Trihalomethanes (TTHM)
Turbidity
Volatile Organic Chemicals (VOCs)
Xylenes
Zinc

Those that don't want to filter the water... Fine... I'll filter mine to the best of my ability!

Nick
01-27-2013 03:23 PM
RichH
Re: Water Filteration

NSF/FDA wants ALL potable municipal water filtered to 1,2ÁM (99.99%).
01-27-2013 02:43 AM
guitarguy56
Re: Water Filteration

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
... oocysts, the recent 'biggy' in municipal water.

0,5-1ppm free chlorine is THE standard municipal chlorine maintenance (residual) dosage. Dont like it, then argue with NSF/FDA.

;-)
That's when it's time to boil water... 5 micron with carbon is plenty for general drinking water use!
01-27-2013 02:09 AM
RichH
Re: Water Filteration

Well I worked for Pall Corp for nearly 18 years ... in the Process Division that actually does the municipal, etc. water purification (and it isnt by cartridge filters), etc. etc etc. etc. and then for the next ~15 yrs working for their competitors in the same field. 5ÁM is going to get you NADA. 1,2ÁM (abs.) will at least remove oocysts, the recent 'biggy' in municipal water.

0,5-1ppm free chlorine is THE standard municipal chlorine maintenance (residual) dosage. Dont like it, then argue with NSF/FDA.

;-)
01-27-2013 01:38 AM
guitarguy56
Re: Water Filteration

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
Sorry guy but most USA municipal water systems are dosed with Chlorine... clorox is a cheap, efficient and highly effective way to keep the 'bio-burden' in water to a reasonable level.
Reverse Osmosis is NOT a guarantee for 'purity water' 1. the membranes cant be validated for their 'integrity' and have MANY manufacturing defects routinely in their surface. 2. bacteria is collected by those membranes ... mostly with 'cracks'.
Before USA water came under the control of the 'sanitarians', the average lifespan was 45 y/o. Fully 1/3 of the deaths in third world countries are caused by water borne parasitic diseases. The US municipal water system is NOT as you 'think' it is ... many deaths have been reported recently due to chlorine resistant pathogens ... and not all the US systems have been 'corrected' since those outbreaks.

and here's the simplest kicker for you ... do you even know what ÁM filter and what required removal efficiency at that ÁM rating to use to remove 'bacteria'? .... hint: you cant buy them at a West Marine or a Home Depot !!!!!
Rich... While I never mentioned in any of my posts 'municipal' water was not good... I filter this water at my house with 5 micron filters... this water is filtered right after the meter... then the various water outlets for each 'drinking' unit or faucet is filtered again to remove sediments in the pipes and nasty tastes coming from sitting in the pipes... same goes with the boat... I use two filters to remove the clorine/flourines and any particulates in the water... the reverse osmosis is NOT for drinking but for my marine aquarium applications and mostly to remove phosphates and nitrates in the water before adding to my saltwater mix...

Before working for NASA... I spent a year+ working for PALL Life Sciences in their medical filtration unit... there we spent our time engineering .02 micron and less filters for lab/medical uses and yes at that level the water is purified of bacteria and ready for USP uses.... some of the filters we specialized in....

By the way... you might want to read up on the MSDS of sodium hypochlorite... 'Section 3' ... Target: Blood.... really not something I want 'flowing' in my blood!

Using clorox to clean and sterilized holding tanks is fine and dandy... as long as the flushing is tested to insure you have residues that are less than a certain percentage in ppm... then it's safe and then again the filters come in play...

Nick
01-26-2013 10:53 PM
RichH
Re: Water Filteration

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy56 View Post
I don't trust chlorine in my drinking water, tanks, or anywhere else... it belongs in pools and for bleaching white clothes only! I myself would NEVER put any chlorine tablets or chlorine drops of any kind into my fresh water holding tanks... I flush them out frequently with filtered fresh water and have never had the slime or bacterial growth... as long as the incoming water supply is filtered of any particulates and most of the phosphates (food for bacteria and slime) there will be no algal slime or nasties... been doing this for marine aquariums most my life... only other pure water supply is reverse osmosis and that is not doable on our boats... huge energy/water waste... Chlorine is really not good for your health as I said... can't post the link due to my posting privilage but here is a good read:

internethealthlibrary DOT com/Environmental-Health/Chlorine-and-cancer DOT htm
Sorry guy but most USA municipal water systems are dosed with Chlorine... clorox is a cheap, efficient and highly effective way to keep the 'bio-burden' in water to a reasonable level.
Reverse Osmosis is NOT a guarantee for 'purity water' 1. the membranes cant be validated for their 'integrity' and have MANY manufacturing defects routinely in their surface. 2. bacteria is collected by those membranes ... mostly with 'cracks'.
Before USA water came under the control of the 'sanitarians', the average lifespan was 45 y/o. Fully 1/3 of the deaths in third world countries are caused by water borne parasitic diseases. The US municipal water system is NOT as you 'think' it is ... many deaths have been reported recently due to chlorine resistant pathogens ... and not all the US systems have been 'corrected' since those outbreaks.

and here's the simplest kicker for you ... do you even know what ÁM filter and what required removal efficiency at that ÁM rating to use to remove 'bacteria'? .... hint: you cant buy them at a West Marine or a Home Depot !!!!!
01-26-2013 10:06 PM
beachbm61
Re: Water Filteration

When in the US we don't filter municipal water before filling the tanks. We have a whole house filter on the cold side in the boat. The previous owner of the boat of 25 years stated he never had a problem with water, "always sweet". When I bought her and began living aboard/ cruising in 2005 I did not filter the inbound water, no problems. About 2008 I started filtering the inbound with an rv type filter on the hose. I began to get algae problems in the tanks. I shocked the tanks, lasted good for a couple weeks, had to shock again. This when on a couple times. Finally baffled I refilled the tanks unfiltered like the "old days". Haven't had a problem in 4 years. We still filter in foreign waters.
12-14-2012 04:44 PM
guitarguy56
Re: Water Filteration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekka View Post

We should pay attention to where our water comes from and what is in it. Municipal supplies are required to report to consumers their regular testing and results. Ever read yours? Know what your system tests for? What is looked for by testing varies from place to place. Some give themselves high grades but test for a fraction of what other locales test for. When I travel to new places I often ask locals where their water comes from. Almost no one ever knows. Yes it is easy to feel all is well when one is not looking, let alone, watching.

YOMV
++++1000

From an article you can read by Googling: 'Perchlorates in California water suppy'


"A toxic chemical used to fuel Cold War-era missiles and the rockets that put man on the moon has left a legacy of contamination across the Southwest, where it pinches the region's already tight supply of drinking water.

The chemical, called perchlorate, pollutes much of the lower Colorado River -- the main water source for 20 million people across the Southwest -- and has forced the shutdown of hundreds (300+) of wells in California.

State and federal officials are still debating how much risk perchlorate poses when ingested and what limits should be set for the chemical, a process slowed partly by lawsuits filed by defense contractors such as Lockheed Martin Corp. that worry they could be on the hook for billions of dollars in cleanup costs."

And... some believe they want the government to determine how much pollutants our bodies can acquire everyday... not me! OP wanted to know what filters are best to use and we posted... adding that he can somehow drink polluted water in some 'degrees' is beyond what he asked!... My son is a resident 'virologist' at the CDC Center in Atlanta and I showed him this thread and of course he laughed at some of the suggestions regarding how clean 'some rain water' could be or adding chlorox to drinking water supply tanks... ludicrous at best!
12-14-2012 04:25 PM
Trekka
Re: Water Filteration

Comparing stomach acids to acid rain is ludicrous. (I drink a cup of acid every morning at breakfast, too) Do you have any idea what makes up the pollutants in air pollution? Of course not. Yes, "clean" is relative. And the relative difference between acid rain and purified water is worth respecting. Do you really want to drink the output of obsolete coal fired plants, refineries, and motor vehicles?

And there are worse contaminants that can be found in ground water and streams than animal feces.

We should pay attention to where our water comes from and what is in it. Municipal supplies are required to report to consumers their regular testing and results. Ever read yours? Know what your system tests for? What is looked for by testing varies from place to place. Some give themselves high grades but test for a fraction of what other locales test for. When I travel to new places I often ask locals where their water comes from. Almost no one ever knows. Yes it is easy to feel all is well when one is not looking, let alone, watching.

The idea of catching rain water for free has deep roots in cruising lore. But what was good for the Hiscock's in the Pacific 70 yrs ago is of questionable relevance today. Especially within a thousand miles of a heavily populated coast. I believe rainwater should be filtered, preferably on input to tanks, but certainly after if not done before. And with a filter designed for industrial pollutants. YOMV
12-14-2012 11:50 AM
hellosailor
Re: Water Filteration

Trekka, "safe" is a relative term. Where do you think that rainwater goes to when you drink it? That highly acidic acid rain is in fact gentle and sweet compared to the normal gastric juices in your stomache. Stomache acids are designed to tear apart all sorts of flesh. You wouldn't want to get them on your car either.
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