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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel > Could 27 hp fit here?
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Thread: Could 27 hp fit here? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-11-2012 01:17 PM
dabnis
Re: Could 27 hp fit here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
For starters you could run a course with a GPS and compare it with the projected hull speed, taking into account how dirty the bottom and/or prop is.

After that you could tow something like a small drogue to try to simulate head wind and/or heavy chop and see how much the speed drops off. If that cuts the towing speed a lot, maybe by a third or half, maybe it doesn't have as much thrust as you want. Perhaps comparing the numbers to your previous boat might give you a starting point.

Not very scientific, but it would be a place to start

Paul T
Forgot this, the Beta specs show 3,600 RPM. If you can,t get close to this the prop may be over pitched or dirty. Might be good to have a diver do a hull and prop cleaning before any testing?

betamarine - Engine View

Paul T
12-11-2012 12:28 PM
dabnis
Re: Could 27 hp fit here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
Started another more general thread about the boat, and the consensus among most owners of sister ships seemed to be the motor would be a little light, and that the 28 would have fit. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-r...berg-35-a.html
If I decide to make an offer, it would be contingent on a sea trial and survey. Just trying to qualify it now. In addition to the boats lineage, the new motor was the strongest thing going for it, so sufficient power became the issue.
Now I'm wondering, what if conditions are benign during the sea trial? How do you really test for sufficient power? My biggest concern is not so much at sea (though that is certainly important), as handling in tight situations like a marina. For example, the boat might slide into her slip and stop on a dime on a windless day without current. However, how about with a 20 Knot tail wind. If the boat was bristol and slightly underpowered it would be one thing. However, I've got a lot of work to bring this old girl back to life, so it's important she's got the right motor, especially since it's new. Anyway, back on topic, seems the owner tried to save a grand and went with a light motor, as I suspected. How do I test it on a flat water day with no current/wind?
For starters you could run a course with a GPS and compare it with the projected hull speed, taking into account how dirty the bottom and/or prop is.

After that you could tow something like a small drogue to try to simulate head wind and/or heavy chop and see how much the speed drops off. If that cuts the towing speed a lot, maybe by a third or half, maybe it doesn't have as much thrust as you want. Perhaps comparing the numbers to your previous boat might give you a starting point.

Not very scientific, but it would be a place to start

Paul T
12-10-2012 04:30 PM
L124C
Re: Could 27 hp fit here?

Based on the picture in the OP, someone in the other thread was questioning the way the motor was mounted. The Beta Marine shop where the owner claims the motor was installed has a good reputation. When I looked at the boat, I wondered about the wiring on the new motor instrument panel, but blew it off. With someone questioning the way the motor was mounted, I'm now wondering about the wiring again. Doesn't look dangerous, but I would expect it to be much tidier on a new installation. Maybe he BOUGHT the motor at the shop, but had someone else install it.
Thoughts on the wiring and motor mounts?
12-10-2012 04:12 PM
L124C
Re: Could 27 hp fit here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
L,

Maybe I missed this, but have you had a chance to take it out to check speed and thrust against the Bay's nasty chop and churn? You might be surprised if it has the proper prop on it? Shouldn't cost much to ask for a short ride? From the specs you quoted it might be able to do the job?
Paul T
Started another more general thread about the boat, and the consensus among most owners of sister ships seemed to be the motor would be a little light, and that the 28 would have fit. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-r...berg-35-a.html
If I decide to make an offer, it would be contingent on a sea trial and survey. Just trying to qualify it now. In addition to the boats lineage, the new motor was the strongest thing going for it, so sufficient power became the issue.
Now I'm wondering, what if conditions are benign during the sea trial? How do you really test for sufficient power? My biggest concern is not so much at sea (though that is certainly important), as handling in tight situations like a marina. For example, the boat might slide into her slip and stop on a dime on a windless day without current. However, how about with a 20 Knot tail wind. If the boat was bristol and slightly underpowered it would be one thing. However, I've got a lot of work to bring this old girl back to life, so it's important she's got the right motor, especially since it's new. Anyway, back on topic, seems the owner tried to save a grand and went with a light motor, as I suspected. How do I test it on a flat water day with no current/wind?
12-10-2012 11:48 AM
dabnis
Re: Could 27 hp fit here?

L,

Maybe I missed this, but have you had a chance to take it out to check speed and thrust against the Bay's nasty chop and churn? You might be surprised if it has the proper prop on it? Shouldn't cost much to ask for a short ride? From the specs you quoted it might be able to do the job?

Paul T
12-10-2012 04:42 AM
SlowButSteady
Re: Could 27 hp fit here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by L124C View Post
This advice from someone called "Slow but Steady". I'll consider the source:
As I indicated, I also value access (and think the Alberg would still have it with a 28hp motor).
Just because it has the room doesn't mean it needs the extra power. A smaller engine will weigh less, use less fuel, and usually be cheaper and easier to maintain(particularly when comparing engines within one brand). Besides, they're called SAILboats for a reason.
12-10-2012 04:35 AM
SlowButSteady
Re: Could 27 hp fit here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
...
Rebuilt Atomic 4's are available from Moyer Marine for around $6K.
Working used models can be had for ~ $1K.
And you'll still have a stinking A4 to deal with, and somewhere between 3 and 30 hp of actual output (depending on the mood of the A4 that day), and gasoline fumes to worry about, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

A pox on gas inboards!
12-10-2012 04:32 AM
L124C
Re: Could 27 hp fit here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
20 hp is probably plenty of power for that boat anyway. Just because it originally had a 30 hp anemic-4 doesn't really mean anything. An A4 was one of the few small inboards available at that time. Having good access to everything on the engine is waaayyy under-rated. If I had my druthers, I would love to have a smaller engine in my boat and forego the extra (and basically unnecessary) few hp I would be losing.
This advice from someone called "Slow but Steady". I'll consider the source
As I indicated, I also value access (and think the Alberg would still have it with a 28hp motor). I keep hearing the gas verses diesel hp debate. But was told hp is hp, no mater how you get it, torque distribution not withstanding. I've heard of reliability issues, but what made the A4 anemic?
12-10-2012 04:14 AM
L124C
Re: Could 27 hp fit here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
...also Beta marine makes a 28HP A4 replacement...
Did some searching and Beta also makes a 20 hp replacement for the A4. Did Atomic make a 20 hp motor? In any case, it seems that "replacement" means that it fits on the A4 mounts. So, height/length could still be an issue.

A Beta dealership site states:
Several Beta Marine diesel engines are available to replace the Atomic 4 gasoline engine depending upon the vessel's displacement. General guidelines for displacement hulls follow, but please contact Joe DeMers for a specific recommendation concerning your boat and application.
Boats between 10,000 and 14,000 pounds need the Beta 20 or Beta 25 engine.
Boats between 14,000 and 18,000 pounds require the 28 hp Beta Marine engine.

The Alberg does have a narrow beam (9'-8") by modern standards, but also has less LWL (24') and a full keel. At 12,600 pounds, that would seem to put it at the top of the first category (Beta 25), or bottom of the second.
Another thread I was looking at, pointed out that charging takes additional hp, something I didn't even consider.
12-09-2012 11:57 PM
CalebD
Re: Could 27 hp fit here?

Yes, it is either a 20 or 28 HP Beta engine (not 27) and I'm guessing that the price differential is over $1K between the two models. Say $7K for the 20HP and $8.2K for the 28HP (probably add $1K to each price guestimate).

I'd guess that it could be a cabinetry problem as ehirlihy suggested although Beta makes a "drop in" replacement for the A4 in both 20 & 28 HP so the bigger engine should have worked fine.

SBS,
How dare you make fun of my Atomic 3 or 4 engine!!!
"The Atomic 4, a drop in replacement engine for most Beta Marine engines."
Rebuilt Atomic 4's are available from Moyer Marine for around $6K.
Working used models can be had for ~ $1K.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
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