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Alternatives to Sailrite?

10K views 24 replies 9 participants last post by  MastUndSchotbruch 
#1 ·
Is anyone aware of a company that manufactures diy sail kits you sew up yourself, as does Sailrite, or are they the only game in town? Any comments about these firms, pos or negative?
Thanks
 
#2 ·
Hmmm. Not aware of anyone else in the "We cut, you sew" business. Probably a good reason for that. Many people have observed the price of a complete Sailrite kit is not that far below what, say, F/X or SailWarehouse charge for a finished sail.

There's a reason for that, too. The materials costs are pretty much fixed. There's a lot of design work, cutting, and marking hems that goes on. In a way, the sewing is the easy part. Sailrite (or any modern loft) has that big flatbed plotter/cutter to pay for, & the expensive software that drives it.

So if you really want to make your own sails AND save money, shop around for a good price on sailcloth -- it's mostly Contender or Challenger anyhow -- and do the designing and cutting yourself. It is not terribly hard, if you are handy with a metric tape measure. There's a nifty freeeware program out there called Sailcut CAD that will let you design a perfectly good sail, then spit out plotter coordinates accurate to the thousandth of a mm.

drift3

Then it's down to you, a tape measure, and a hotknife.;) I've built three sails this way, and they are really nice sails. Second and third better than the first, of course -- there is a learning curve. I will say this: after you've done the hard work of designing, laying out and cutting your own sail, you'll realize Sailrite's kit prices are pretty reasonable. Takes us about a day to lay out and cut; half a day to sew the panels; and most of two days for the finish work (boltrope/hanks/slugs, leech lines, batten pockets, corner reinforcements & grommets, reef points, etc.)

Scratch building is an option if you understand basic sail theory, enjoy that sort of thing, and place no value on your time. Your final costs will be ~60% of a Sailrite kit, maybe 25-30% North Sails or local loft. No one to complain to if it doesn't fit, tho.;)
 
#4 ·
Brent, I've looked around and I haven't found any really decent sails at what I would term a decent price. Then there's the problem of finding the right size. If you can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. I've already checked out the usual suspects - Bacon's, Minney's, etc.
Good info on sail building and what's involved - I'll take it into consideration.
I'm always amazed at the depth of knowledge in this place.
 
#5 ·
I've done both. If you keep looking at used sail sites, eventually you can get a really good deal on a sail that's in next to new condition. I recently bought a mainsail that I suspect came off an A35 or something very close. 8 oz material, triple stitched, it sail looked like it was never used...for $250 bucks! I recut/sewed it for a heavy cruising sail, dumped the hump, added some extra heavy patches and a reef point. I also sewed a kit from Sailrite for a trysail. It is a very nice, extremely well designed sail which I hope to never use.:) +1 on the little sailcut program above. My next sail project is going to be a new storm jib. Once you learn the basics of sail-making and have a good machine, you can save a LOT of money.
 
#7 ·
@ smurphny and Brent - ok, let's take the discussion in that direction since you two know what you're talking about...let's say I find a lightly used mainsail that is too big. What dimension - luff, foot or leech is the easiest to correct? Would I be right in presuming you take the material from the head, and square it off, rather than mess with the foot? How much bigger can the sail actually be? I'm dealing with a luff of 38.25, foot of 11.5 and a leech of 39.7 in 7 oz Dacron. I could go a few inches shorter on the luff without a lot of problem I think, just raise the boom to compensate.
What about reef points?
And - that $250 sail - I've seen nothing comparable to that deal - the Bacons et al out there don't give those prices, so who am I not checking out that I should be? You can pm me that info ir you'd prefer, lol....
Also - I have available if I want it a very nice sail that is too small - luff 33'5", leech 38'6.5", foot 12'8.5", so it's too short in height, too long in the foot. Is that doable? I would have to add 4.75 feet to the foot, and cut the foot back 1' 2.5" in length, so a cut right up the leech to get that right. That doesn't sound real easy.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I think I got that sail from Atlantic Sail Traders. Second Wind and Minneys also have a good supply of used sails. The things to look for are, of course, the types of attachments at the luff (I had to change from slugs to outside slides at the luff and to 7/8" slugs on the foot), the sail's condition, stitching, weight, etc. Pretty much what you'd look for in any new sail. The most important thing is probably the luff angle. If it's right, the foot and luff can be saved as-is and maybe both tack and clew. That's a lot of sewing you don't have to do. If the foot and luff can be preserved then all you need to do is carefully layout the leech cut. You may not even have to remove the headboard if the luff length is right. The batten pockets need to be removed and moved in and maybe shortened and a new tape sewn on the leech with a leech line in it. On the sail I just did, I added a couple of layers to the patches, beefed up the batten pockets, added a third reef, and sewed in new grommets and corner leathers.

One thing you probably can't efficiently do to a used sail is to recut the actual curvatures. If doing that, it would probably be better to just start from scratch with new sailcloth. If the sail is way too big, it may be a problem because the deepest part of the sail's shape may be out of place once recut.

It IS a bit of work but a good thing to be able to do. If you have more time than money like me, it's almost a no-brainer.
 
#9 ·
I've done a leech repair on this sail, it wasn't all that hard to do, but the sail is now past that and needs replacing.
If I'm understanding you, getting a sail with the correct luff means you don't have to mess with the headboard - you just recut the leach so that the foot is the correct length, install leech tape and a leech line, redo the batten pockets, etc.? Isn't the luff/foot angle a de facto 90°, so that all you have to do is cut from the head to the appropriate length on the foot - meaning the leech will automatically be the right length?
 
#11 ·
Your boat specs will give the luff angle you're looking for. The person selling the sail can easily lay it out flat on the deck and measure the angle. Just have them use a 3-4-5 right triangle to see if it's close to 90 degrees. Some sails do not have a 90 degree angle although most are close. If headroom is an issue, and the new angle is greater than the old, it could be a problem. On my boat, the boom is very close overhead when I'm standing. If it were lower by only an inch or so, it would be too close for comfort and it would be necessary to use the topping lift all the time rather than letting the sail hang naturally.
 
#14 ·
It really is fun and not rocket science unless you're designing you own. A Sailmaker's Apprentice is a great book on the subject. I almost ruined my home quality sewing machine at first and had to buy an old Pfaff 130 which will sew through 8 layers of 8 oz cloth. That and somewhere to use as a "loft" where you have room to spread out an entire sail is really all you need in addition to some sailmaking needles, a leather palm, and grommet dies. You also need to be able to stretch luff ropes somewhere post to post or tree to tree but with modern line, stretch is less an issue.
 
#18 ·
I have no experience with any machine other than the Pfaff 130. I got it on Ebay and then added an upgraded motor and a big handwheel from Zeus sewing machines. Zeus is very helpful. The reason I went with the Pfaff is because it is small enough to keep right onboard and has no cheap plastic gears--all metal. Many of the heavy machines are made to be mounted permanently somewhere and are way too large to even consider keeping on a small boat. I built a sturdy case that fits right in a locker. The hand wheel makes it usable even with no power by just turning it manually, not fast but a LOT faster than hand sewing. It would be nice to have more stitch types like a 3-step which is stronger than a plain zig-zag and used by sailmakers. I use #20 needles and 92# thread for most of the heavy stuff. As I said, the bugger will sew right through 8 layers of new 8 oz. sail cloth for corner patch work. Everyone says they like a moving foot. The 130 does not have one so I have no info. on that. Don't even know what it does.

One thing mentioned above is basting. Sailrite sends basting tape with their kits. It seems to be absolutely indispensable so it should be included in any material list you make. Keeping long seams aligned without it would be next to impossible.
 
#19 ·
The Sailrite LSZ-1 is a nice machine that comes well equipped. I bought a "clone" made by Barracuda (found on amazon), but have spent a lot of time and money upgrading it to be as nice as a LSZ-1. It would have been cheaper to buy the Sailrite machine in the first place.

These are solid all metal machines with a walking foot and only two stitches, straight and zigzag. They handle heavy cloth pretty nicely, but at a slower rate than an industrial machine. The whole thing packs away nicely into a carrying case that would fit onboard.

I haven't made or modified sails, I've just done basic canvas work. This thread is interesting and opening up possibilities for me.
 
#20 ·
The Sailrite LSZ-1 is a nice machine that comes well equipped. I bought a "clone" made by Barracuda (found on amazon), but have spent a lot of time and money upgrading it to be as nice as a LSZ-1. It would have been cheaper to buy the Sailrite machine in the first place.

These are solid all metal machines with a walking foot and only two stitches, straight and zigzag. They handle heavy cloth pretty nicely, but at a slower rate than an industrial machine. The whole thing packs away nicely into a carrying case that would fit onboard.

I haven't made or modified sails, I've just done basic canvas work. This thread is interesting and opening up possibilities for me.
They handle heavy cloth pretty nicely, but at a slower rate than an industrial machine.

This is a huge advantage! Assuming you are not a trained seamster/ress, the problem is not the machine going too slow but the machine going too fast! Having the possibility of going slow and with control was for me the biggest advantage of installing the Sailrite Monster Wheel.
 
#21 ·
That's a good point. When you're in the middle a whole bunch of sail material, trying to carefully sew inch by inch, the last thing you need is the machine taking off like a rocket. With the upgraded motor on my Pfaff 130, it can get going faster than I want if I step on the gas too much, often resulting in use of the seam ripper.:) It also tends to start shredding the thread if you try to go too fast through a lot of layers. I have found that oiling the thread helps with this. A #19 or 20 needle also is a must to avoid thread breakage in thick material.
 
#22 ·
It also tends to start shredding the thread if you try to go too fast through a lot of layers. I have found that oiling the thread helps with this. A #19 or 20 needle also is a must to avoid thread breakage in thick material.
I'm pretty new to this stuff so maybe the terminology I'm using is wrong.

I haven't made any sails and don't really intend to but I have done quite a bit of my own canvas work. I'm using a "bonded polyester" thread that is really strong and doesn't fray, is this standard/normal?

I have found it sometimes breaks if there were too many layers or if one layer is leather. So I bought needles that are intended for leather and have an "anvil" head or so the sewing shop called it. It cuts cleanly through multiple layers including leather and using the bonded polyester thread, it sews through just about anything.
 
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