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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation > Rule 23a question
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Thread: Rule 23a question Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-22-2012 12:51 AM
jackdale
Re: Rule 23a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Why?
A sailboat can be any vessel with a mast and sails. A sailing vessel is specifically defined in Rule 3.

Quote:
(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.
A sailing must must be using sails only as a means of propulsion. You can run the engine to charge batteries, cool the fridge, make water. But as soon as you engage the transmission the sailboat becomes a power driven vessel.

Quote:
(b) The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.
12-22-2012 12:42 AM
davidpm
Re: Rule 23a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post

Note I used the term sailboat, not sailing vessel, in the first sentence,
Why?
12-20-2012 10:37 PM
jackdale
Re: Rule 23a question

[quote=L124C;964919]
Quote:
Not to high jack the thread but I'm confused. I previously thought this was the case, and was proved wrong (I believe on a Sailnet thread). So now, I thought it must apply to motoring only. However, in reviewing the regs, it seems it makes no difference. Has something changed in the past few years?
A sailboat under propelled by machinery (under power) may not use a masthead tricolor. A sailing vessel is defined in Rule 3.

Note I used the term sailboat, not sailing vessel, in the first sentence,


Quote:

On every boat I've been on, the helmsman can't even tell if the running lights are on (Stern light notwithstanding), without going forward. I thought they were supposed to be designed that way.
I have been a couple of sailboats in which we could see a reflection of the sidelights from the cockpit.
12-20-2012 08:12 PM
davidpm
Re: Rule 23a question

[quote=L124C;964919]
Quote:
Not to high jack the thread but I'm confused. I previously thought this was the case, and was proved wrong (I believe on a Sailnet thread). So now, I thought it must apply to motoring only. However, in reviewing the regs, it seems it makes no difference. Has something changed in the past few years?



On every boat I've been on, the helmsman can't even tell if the running lights are on (Stern light notwithstanding), without going forward. I thought they were supposed to be designed that way.
I went to a school with a fellow who claimed he was never wrong except once when he thought he was wrong but was mistaken. I'm not aware of any changes, just reading the book. It says what it says.

As far as the helmsman seeing the lights, I agree with you that on most boats you can't see the red and green except as a reflection off a sail sometimes but the stern light often sets up a glare reflecting off of shiny metal or polished fiberglass.
When it happens it really bothers me.
12-20-2012 06:27 PM
L124C
Re: Rule 23a question

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Tri-color lights are allowed for both offshore and inshore under 20 meters.
Not to high jack the thread but I'm confused. I previously thought this was the case, and was proved wrong (I believe on a Sailnet thread). So now, I thought it must apply to motoring only. However, in reviewing the regs, it seems it makes no difference. Has something changed in the past few years?

Quote:
One advantage is that the lights distract the helmsmen less high up.
A side light can reflect off the head-sail at deck level causing glare.
On every boat I've been on, the helmsman can't even tell if the running lights are on (Stern light notwithstanding), without going forward. I thought they were supposed to be designed that way.
12-20-2012 02:14 PM
jackdale
Re: Rule 23a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Interesting, I've just been reading over section 23 and 24. They are two of the more difficult, especially when the rules change for varying locations. It does seem nonsensical to have different rules for different places. Changing light patterns as in, "...below the Huey P Long Bridge...." seems really pointless.
I find the Inland rules much easier to follow as the demarcation lines better define the areas better than the Canadian modifications. Some of the mods apply in "In the Canadian waters of a roadstead, harbour, river, lake or inland waterway." I took me quite a while to get that to sink in.
12-20-2012 08:48 AM
smurphny
Re: Rule 23a question

Interesting, I've just been reading over section 23 and 24. They are two of the more difficult, especially when the rules change for varying locations. It does seem nonsensical to have different rules for different places. Changing light patterns as in, "...below the Huey P Long Bridge...." seems really pointless.
12-20-2012 12:33 AM
jackdale
Re: Rule 23a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
(c | d) (i) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights.

So your motoring back to the slip and your mast head light goes out.
As long as navigation lights are working just flip on your anchor light and pop the bulb out of your stern light and you are legal.
Jackdale?
Pretty much



Navigation Rules Online

That is a good site.
12-19-2012 11:45 PM
davidpm
Re: Rule 23a question

(c | d) (i) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights.

So your motoring back to the slip and your mast head light goes out.
As long as navigation lights are working just flip on your anchor light and pop the bulb out of your stern light and you are legal.
Jackdale?
12-19-2012 11:31 PM
davidpm
Re: Rule 23a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
I didn't know that. When did that take effect, or have I been oblivious for ever?
Jackdale is an instructor, I'm just reading the book but here is the paragraph, no distinction between international or inshore

(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:

(i) sidelights;
(ii) a sternlight.

(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.
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