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Opposition to liveaboards

41K views 272 replies 50 participants last post by  Ravenhawk 
#1 ·
I want to share something with you guys and I want to know IF you have ever experienced anything like this....We are New to the sailing world and love it....we chose to live aboard our boat for MANY reasons...well...we found this awesome Marina in Fernandina Beach that is run by the city......anyway...they told us the live aboard rate was going to go up $200 a month! Is there opposition to live aboards or is this an isolated case?
 
#155 ·
Is a person who is on a boat from November through March living on it considered a liveaboard if the boat moves?

Docklubber+1- you coined a new English term Paulo I like it:)
 
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#158 ·
No offense taken here.

I do, however, have no problem with judging people unfamiliar with the sea or seamanship. Landlubbers they all be, which may include the yo yo liveaboard that has never removed the docklines. :)

The liveaboard vids above are very interesting. An amazing collection of junk aboard the first couple, it seemed. No way they ever leave the dock. I would definitely find another marina, if I was tied up next to any of them. Easy to see why marinas often discourage the practice.

We have several full-time but seasonal liveaboards (May to Oct) and you could never tell. The only exception is a folding bicycle left on the dock, in front of one. (even that bothers me a little bit)
 
#159 ·
I really miss the liveaboard lifestyle. For over 20 years I lived aboard and have fond memories of the many diverse people that I had the privlidge of knowing thorugh those years. I don't know why but I was always hesitate about saying that I was a live aboard. During the latter part of those years, I started a small engineering consulting company which required that I do a lot of traveling, so for maybe a half dozen of those years I was away from the boat for weeks at a time. Plus I had other property that could be used as an address if need be. I remember a fellow that was undergoing a devorce living aboard on a small sailboat at the end of the dock. He had a friend who wrote for the Washington Post that came to the dock to do an article about living aboard. There were quite a few liveaboads at the marina at this time and I think all spoke with him. However I was reluctant and while I did speak with him I did not want my name used. The article came out with pictures and all and wouldn't you know it within a year or two, all liveaboards were given short notice and were requried to leave. Not sure if there was a tie in to the article because of the lag time, but I hated to see people treated this way.

It's been 7 years since I've lived aboard and already have accumulated too much stuff. I think it was refreshing to get rid of 'stuff" and move aboard, but no matter where you live there are always things to explore and do even away from the sea.
 
#162 ·
It's easy to spot the liveaboard that has all the junk piled about and a sure sign that they are not making a success of living aboard. Most successful live aboards are not recognized as liveaboards by the appearance of their boats other than some added equipment such as solar panels & wind generators.

Only the less successful liveaboards are in the "spotlight"!
 
#163 ·
sometimes that "junk" is stuff needed to be relocated for a refit of boat while being lived aboard--so you judge folks so easily??? judge not lest thee be judged....think about it.

many very successful liveaboards have "stuff" on decks due to refitting boat while living in this--
-mebbe folks should live in others' shoes for a bit of time to get used to the differences in lifestyles--not everyone is a snotty yotty--i got to see this from many sides, so far--mebbe your boat was perfect when ye bought her--some folks dont have money to afford that perfection before moving on board..rents ar ekinda high in usa for land based housing, dontcha know....
i had a neighbor in sd on moorings with a vagabond 47 he got for 60k usd, due to refit needs--he lived on board as he sanded the interior--yes, he placed his possessions on deck. lets see anyone else do better than that guy..LOL
 
#164 ·
.....judge not lest thee be judged....think about it.
Ok, I'm done thinking about it and still feel the same.

-mebbe folks should live in others' shoes for a bit of time to get used to the differences in lifestyles--not everyone is a snotty yotty....
That sounds sort of judgmental.

Marina rules are the rules. If my marina had a rule that permitted junk on the decks, I would move to another. I suspect that's why they don't.
 
#165 ·
sad to hear that so many living on boats have limited ability to understand the refits of others, and the need for placing some things on deck to make room for improvements before replacing the items into the newly created location made for them..LOL...is a sad world we live in wherein folks residing on the planet have no tolerance for the lives and living of others.... bon chance.
 
#167 ·
Its time we start going into other people's houses, apartments, backyards,offices, cube at the office , desk at the office, car, truck, trailer, motorhome,boat, and any other exterior or interior space to determine if it meets my approval, a military person approval, republican approval,democrat approval,skinhead approval, Putin's approval and of course all sailnet members........
I'm sure I left out many others who should approve of how people live and how much "stuff" is allowed to be owned, shown in 'their' space or hidden from view and (how we all should live). Maybe I should consult with great historical writing, religious leaders of past and present,etc. I'm sure one of the Supreme Leaders on this site will tell all of us how we should live.
 
#168 ·
Wowza.....

You can live any bloody way you choose. But only if the rules of the marina you are in allow it. Then, everyone else gets to decide if they want to live next to you or move away. Its a pretty simple democracy and the minority has to live with it. Ask 48% of the people that just voted for President how they feel about not getting their way, particularly when the 52% are rubbing it in like it was a landslide.
 
#169 ·
I agree you can live any way you blody choose.

If you move to a marina whic has rules on corformity like an HOA does in land communities, thats is the right of the owners or slipholders to make rules up preserve their interests and value of thier marina. I am not arguing the validity of them, just that the homeowners have the right to make the rules by majority as long as they arent discriminatory. You dont have to live there and you dont have the right to ***** about it, move somewhere else

However if you move to a marina where there are no such rules, no one has the right to make you conform to their levels of organizatioin or standards and if they dont like it then they can move somewhere else/.

Getting tired of the losers pretending they didnt loose. It doesnt make any difference by how much. Just ask the 52% who feel the 48% are acting like they didnt loose.

Or ask the majoirty who voted for Gore but Bush won? Its the way the process works, just eal with it you lost.
 
#170 ·
I agree with some of the others, if you sign a contract and the contract says that you won't have stuff on deck, then don't have stuff on deck. If you don't like the terms, don't sign the contract.

That said, I'm amazed that so many marinas have those kinds of rules. Maybe amazed isn't the right word, disappointed, that's a better word. Live and let live, I think all those liveaboards are charming, and yes, before anyone asks, yes, I even think the rusted out grills and bicycles, the dogs, laundry hanging in the rigging, I think it is all charming.
 
#171 ·
You charming is anothers junk and clutter. One person treasure is another persons trash. It really doesnt come into play

If you had to buy your slip, or wanted to maintian its value or increase it, charming doesnt come into play. Thats why some marinas, clubs have boards like homeowners groups in land communities who set some standards. Usually eveyone gets one vote so if enough people agree the rules/standards can be changed. No ones arm is twisted to live there as everyone knows the rules when you join and move in/:)

Dave
 
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#181 ·
I believe this is also happening in Sarasota Bay, FL. I guess some how the owner of the marina here owns the whole area of land under the water.?! Anyway, moorings have gone in now. It has pushed a lot of sailors out. I need my sailboat closer to that shore because I just had a baby & my dinghy is a kayak so I rent a mooring now. They decided to do this a week after I had moved aboard. I rented out my home to cover the mortgage because my job cut my hours to nothing because I was pregnant & no one hires pregnant ladies. I pay on time ($275.00), keep my boat & us clean & am so friendly to the marina but I still get attitude from the doc master. I feel so unwelcome by the marina that I don't use the dock amenities that are included in my rental. I have a feeling they will keep increasing the rent till all the live aboards are gone. There is nowhere else in Sarasota to anchor anymore that has access to land. I hear this is getting to be the case more & more. It stinks!
 
#182 ·
I was thinking about the "snotty yachty" comment and why most don't like having a neighbor with junk all over their boat. Is it particular to marinas?

I don't think so. When you drive through a neighborhood, where everything is strewn all over the front yards of all the house, the property value are definitely lower.

How about littering? For practical purposes, littering would be pretty efficient. That plastic bottle on the side of the road isn't harming anything, is it?

In the end, its a cultural norm to keep things reasonably neat.
 
#184 ·
I was thinking about the "snotty yachty" comment and why most don't like having a neighbor with junk all over their boat. Is it particular to marinas?

I don't think so. When you drive through a neighborhood, where everything is strewn all over the front yards of all the house, the property value are definitely lower.

How about littering? For practical purposes, littering would be pretty efficient. That plastic bottle on the side of the road isn't harming anything, is it?

In the end, its a cultural norm to keep things reasonably neat.
I disagree.

It may seem like a cultural norm where you live, but you get out away from the cities and towns and into everyday life in the U.S. and other countries and it isn't any kind of cultural norm at all.

The clean windows, polished brass, shiny floors, and lint free suits of a city high-rise seem downright creepy once you get out into very rural areas.
 
#191 ·
A marina operator near me , asked when I'm going to tie up to the dock. I told him that if I won $50 million in the lottery I wouldn't pay someone to hand me a list of rules and regulations as to what I was or was not allowed to do on my own boat. I have stayed out of from marinas for most of the last 40 years of cruising, and find my anchor much easier to deal with.
In a little while, when my pension gives me lots of cash, I may tie to a government dock when the winter gets a cold snap, for a month, to plug in an electric heater, but will quickly leave when it warms up a bit.
 
#192 ·
This is pretty much a segregation thing. You do not qualify to live in my neighborhood, ei...no money........

Why I like Caddy Shack. Rodney with tons of money so the money grubbers (best I could come up with in polite company) said okay and the stiff shirts (again censored) had to eat it.

The thing is ...if you have money everybody will suck up to you like you could fill a pair of D cups.
They will tell you no...but I watch where the money goes...and right now...people want to live in gated marinas, wear nautica, etc.
People say like the Pardy's may be tolerated as it is PC to do so ...but if they overstay....you damn right they go........
This is the way of the world....always have been that way...

So yes,liveaboards are an endangered species....you are perceived as getting something for nothing....an anathema to the Ayn Randians out there.
 
#194 ·
This is pretty much a segregation thing. You do not qualify to live in my neighborhood, ei...no money........

....
So yes,liveaboards are an endangered species....you are perceived as getting something for nothing....an anathema to the Ayn Randians out there.
I though you guys liked the laws of free market and free choice. As Minnewaska pointed out the reasons that marinas don't want liverboards is because they chase other clients out.

Obviously we are talking of a certain type of liveboards, some liveaboards that change of marina frequently and are not there all the year had already said here that Marinas do not even consider them liveaboards.

The owners of the marinas are there to make money as in any other business. I can understand very well the phenomenon. I have worked as a land developer designer and I can tell you that a basic knowledge is that you cannot mix different social classes, meaning high income people, medium income and poor on the same neighborhood. If you do that you will not sell the luxury houses and will have difficulty in selling the medium income houses. The ones where you got the bigger profit are luxury houses so doing that is just a very stupid thing and one that can take you out of business.

Market rules there and on the marinas.

I guess that the liveaboards have just to try to fit in and blend in the community where they are. If they stand out as different, with unclean boats, stuff around and so on and others don't like to look at it, they are in their right to go away and look for other marina, as the owner of the marina is on his right to try to prevent that to happen.

Regards

Paulo
 
#193 ·
Nonsense. If marinas made more profit overall from liveaboards, they would be full of them.

The problem is they often chase other clients away, who have every right to decide where to spend their money and they are not worth the additional effort and wear and tear. There was a liveaboard captain at our marina this past season and I never saw a day go by that he wasn't hounding the staff for something. He may even have been within his rights for whatever he needed, but part time slip tenants are just lower maintenance.

Condemn people with money all you like, but that's just class warfare. Every stiff shirt I know likes Caddy Shack, but knows when to be respectful of others.
 
#195 ·
Being naive here.... But I agree with some of the other post. A marina should not even be able to tell you live aboard or not.

Why tell them?

At our marina in Michigan City (Washington park) there's nothing in the rules about how many days or nights you spend on your boat. Just the Marina is open Apr 1st to Nov 1st.

There are a few that do live there, but looking at their boats you'd never know.
 
#198 ·
Being naive here.... But I agree with some of the other post. A marina should not even be able to tell you live aboard or not.

Why tell them?
Why can't a marina decide whether they want 24/7 parking, power, water and toilet usage, as opposed to part time?

There are a few that do live there, but looking at their boats you'd never know.
That's ultimately the secret, I believe. Our marina has several that live aboard full time from May to Oct. We are aboard 4 days per week, although, leave the dock virtually every weekend. You can't tell a single one lives aboard and everyone is actually a sailor, not a squatter. Its just their summer home. If you look at the vids that PCP posted above, you can tell that a couple of those boats are not intended to ever leave the dock. That is what many marinas are looking to avoid and it is very common to have restrictions in lease agreements here.
 
#196 ·
"A marina should not even be able to tell you live aboard or not. "

It is their property, their choice of what terms they will rent on. If it makes a difference to them, yes, they should be able to tell you what terms they will or won't accept. You may not like it, but that's the way contracts are made and enforced in the US. You don't like the terms? Either you negotiate other terms, or you find someone else to deal with.

Sometimes, no one wants to make a reasonable deal. Don't like that? Buy your own marina, and try running the business the way YOU want.
 
#197 ·
So hellosailor are you saying that in some marinas they have it in their rental agreement that you can not be on your boat more than a certain number of days and nights? If so who is actually sitting on the docks recording or logging your every move?

Here in the Midwest we have not seen that.
 
#203 ·
Let me contest some of your assumptions: If you've done your job pricing properly, the marina with more use all week long is going to give you more profit. Metered electric for liveaboards. As a transient, I've begun to see metered electric in several marinas we've visited, even where we stay as little as a week. More often though, it seems to be flat rate based on the power requirement, $7/night for 30 amp and $10/night for 50 amp, etc. Haven't seen anyone in the US bill for water yet; we seem to be a bit behind in that department.

And who's to say you won't find "bad apples" at a marina full of weekenders? These are the ones who come down Friday night and start drinking - loudly - and throwing the cans overboard. Hey, they're on vacation, right? They should be expected to cut loose. And trash? What do they care, they're going home again next week. They're not very experienced on their boats, so they bash into things, do damage, need help from the dockhands EVERY time they enter or leave their slip, etc etc.

This is an extreme example, of course. Inconsiderate boaters - "bad apples" - are bad apples, Minne. I don't believe you find proportionately more of them in one population than another. As the marina manager, you just write your slip leases to allow you to kick out the people who are losers no matter how many nights they do or don't sleep aboard.
 
#204 ·
oops, sorry PCP, I was composing while you were posting. Looks like we had some of the same idea.
 
#205 ·
Wing.... just to be clear. I'm not opposed to liveaboards. I do, however, understand why some marina owners are. I also agree that there are bad apples in all populations. However, the weekenders leave the marina owner alone most of the time and the liveaboards are always around.

I'm just saying that I understand why they are viewed very differently.

I also reject that all live aboards have junk everywhere. However, those that do are also a huge disincentive for the marina owners to permit them and take their chances. Weekend warriors and transients are also much easier to evict.
 
#206 ·
I know you aren't, Minne; I'm just pushing back at generalizations that I didn't think were well articulated way back at the beginning of the thread.

It's weird, some marina owners love the extra security and long-term community that liveaboards provide, others don't want the hassle of making extra accomodations. Judging by the price of slips around here, both types seem able to make money. (and plenty of it!)
 
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