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Mooring bouys

17K views 161 replies 33 participants last post by  rockDAWG 
#1 ·
I cruise BC waters. In southern waters mooring bouys are ever increasing. This is a "what if"... you enter an anchorage and your only option is a lone mooring bouy available and you take it. What happens if the owner of the bouy arrives 03:00 knocks on your hull and asks you to leave?

... thanks...
 
#34 · (Edited)
It is not frowned upon to pick up a mooring willing to risk its integrity and prepared to move if the owner returns. It should be sort of an unplanned option when things don't work out the way you intended. If the transient moorings are all full, there is really no room in the anchorage, the weather or someone's health made an unscheduled stop necessary, etc. I have never felt that sailors or power boaters abuse mooring rights anywhere I have had my gear down. If you pull into a Downeast harbor, like Cutler, which is along a fairly remote stretch of the coast, asking someone at the dock about moorings has always resulted in a fisherman letting me know which moorings will hold my boat and who is out fishing for a few days, with a very welcoming, "glad it is getting some use", attitude. An offer to pay is out of the question. I have never needed a mooring in Portland and can imagine things are a bit different. Destinations like Northeast Harbor get so much traffic it is understood that you have a plan. Emergencies are always accommodated.

Down
 
#38 ·
I was at the Isle Au Haut in Maine a couple of summers back and the transient moorings all had bottles tied to them, where the cruising guide said you were to leave $20. Mine did not have a bottle, so we went ashore to try to find who to pay. The store was closed and there was not a soul near the docks.

I went back to the mooring, tied my own gatorade bottle to the mooring and left the $20 inside.

I've been on moorings over my lifetime, where no one ever came to collect the fee. In every instance, I made an effort to find them and only left without paying, if that effort failed.
 
#48 ·
My mooring buoy has my phone number on it. I am happy to loan it out if you ASK, but if I find you on there and I need it you are leaving pronto. The PRIVATE and COQUINA and my number are a clue it is not yours. I spent over $1,000 on the gear and it is not a public utility.
So far in Maryland most people only have ONE mooring. Apparently New England has people putting them everywhere they go and taking up all the room - not sure what I would think about that. Our bigger issue is moorings that appear to be owned by no one and are of uncertain maintenance at best. We have some near mine that have not been used in at least half a decade and I wouldn't trust to hold an Optimist. I may do some SCUBA inspection and see about removing the obviously dangerous ones.
 
#49 ·
BC does not regulate private moorings, Transport Canada does (http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/land_tenure...te_moorage.pdf point 1 on page 4)

Here is what Transport Canada has to say:
7.1 The placement of a single point mooring buoy by a proponent will not require the submission of an application for approval under the provisions of the NWPA (Navigable Waterways Protection Act) subject to meeting the criteria specified in Annex "A"

Annex A
The placement of a single mooring buoy meeting the following criteria will not require further review by the Navigable Waters Protection Program and the project may proceed.

The mooring buoy must be:

Secured by a single anchor line,
Marked as per An Owners' Guide to Private Buoys 8.4

The mooring buoy including swing area must be:
Placed no less than 20 meters from any existing docks, boathouses, swim platforms, other mooring buoy or other structure located within limits of waterway,

Placed at least 50 meters from any public launch ramp, marina, known navigation channel

AND:
Where free swinging moorings are utilized, they shall require a circular area having a radius equal to three (3) times the length of the vessel
Moored vessels must comply with the Collision Regulations.

Mooring Buoys - Transport Canada

In other words private moorings are legal in BC and you have no right to make use of them.
 
#50 ·
before getting into a private mooring situation, research the moorings and comply with rulings made for boats using these moorings.
in san diego, rafting is a punishable offense--punishment is eviction from mooring. all moorings are sdmc operated and owned by sd port authority. many are rough water mooorings. not cool to raft--makes damage. is also most uncool to just pick up a mooring in sd--they are occupied and have a long wait list.
 
#53 ·
It is the rare mariner who makes it Downeast that needs a "dope slap". We do know how but generally find that kind of stupidity gets filtered by the journey. I suspect it is a mistake not repeated and a lack of appreciation for the things that make being on the water worth the effort. "The Principle of Natural Selection" works on many levels.

Down
 
#56 ·
I've seen 2 mooring floats drift off on their own in my mooring field during the past 2 years. They were obviously not being maintained and hadn't had a boat on them for at least 2 years.

One time, I had spent several hours locating a mooring that had lost its winter float (vandalism) and marked it with a lobster buoy anchored in the mud with a 4# sash weight. Before I got back with a new pennant and the summer buoy, someone in a Boston Whaler had picked up my "mooring"-- and was drifting off as I yelled to him.

So, as others have said, you may regret picking up a private mooring. Furthermore, you may damage tackle that was in process of being replaced, making it all the more difficult for the owner.
 
#57 ·
A basic rule followed by honest, respectful people is, "If it is not yours, leave it alone." If you can't deploy an anchor stay of the water. Because a mooring isn't "marked" makes it available is the kind of scary rationalization making lots of our freedoms feel at risk. If it is there it belongs to someone!

I leave my oars in my Avon. I leave the keys in my car (not the ignition). I don't lock the doors on my houses unless I am leaving for weeks and then leave a key under the mat. Am I inviting trouble? Not so far. Will someone steal my stuff? I hope not. There isn't much worth the effort. I have earned the respect I need from people who know me. I guess I live in a fairly safe part of the country. If you pick up my mooring we will talk.

Down

The only problems I have are bears in the hives and racoons in the corn. The deer in the gardens end up in the freezer.
 
#66 ·
I guess my reasoning does have some holes in it. I never considered the fact that I quite often leave my dinghy, which has no markings on it' at the dock unattended.

My personal mooring is very well marked, and I don't use other peoples moorings regardless of if they are marked or not.

I didn't, explain my original statement/thoughts very well. I was thinking along the lines of someone arriving at an anchorage very late at night, finding it to be full. This person sees a few empty moorings in between all the boats, motors over, sees that there are no numbers or any identification on them. In this situation if said skipper feels that the safest option is to tie up to the mooring, why not. I'm not arguing that he can claim ownership of the mooring until the end of time, but in that situation I see no issue with him using the mooring. At the same time he would also assume all risks/liability assotiated with using a mooring of indeterminate quality.

My ideas on this is influenced by the fact that here in BC there is no liscencing/approval needed to put a mooring down.
I currently have a mooring in Cowichan Bay. Its what allows me to afford my boat. At the same time Cowichan Bay is an anchorage that in my opinion is being/has been over run by moorings. Quite a few of these moorings sit empty, permanently. On two mooring other then mine, I have seen numbers to call to use the mooring if they are not in use at the moment. The rest of the moorings that sit empty are effectively denying that space to anyone else.

I feel that because moorings are essentially free to place in BC and it in essences lets you claim a piece of public space for yourself at zero cost and no benefit to the public at large they should be considered a shared resource, with the person who provided the resources to set up the mooring getting first dibbs, and if they are not currently using it anyone else who comes along can do so at their own risk.

Sent from my GT-P6210 using Tapatalk 2
 
#61 ·
Given a small anchorage, does the presence of boatless mooring bouys mean that this anchorage should be conceded to these owners? I prefer to anchor and not risk a faulty bouy. I have anchored in this situation before and my drift was within a few meters of the vacant bouys. A tie up by an owner would result in collision in this situation. I am assuming that the onus would be on the bouy owner to find an alternative until I leave next morning?
 
#62 ·
Interesting and plausible scenario.. I guess it would depend on local regs wrt whether or not the buoy owner also has a waterlot lease (ie 'ownership' of the water space around the buoy) I suspect that often this will not be the case.
 
#63 ·
the situation you describe is one in which the anchorer gets to relocate to a different place, as the owner of the mooring has priority. i know if it was my mooring someone anchored next to , i would squawk loudly and have the offender physically removed as i pay rent(has clout) and the intruder doesnt(no clout)--he has no foot to stand on in this case. in sd, is illegal to anchor in a mooring field as much damage to under water gear can occur with anchoring over these moorings. would be smart to either discuss situation with the area in which you desire to anchor, or anchor elsewhere. could be a lot of dough to un-impound your boat ----
 
#65 ·
The law seems unclear or unwritten on this in most cases. Common decency suggests that you not use someone else property, nor interfere with its use. (unless an emergency)

I just don't tune in to the "I'm entitle to this or that logic". Pass a law and I'll step aside. Otherwise, we have a problem if you're using or interfering with my mooring and I would support another in protecting theirs.
 
#67 ·
When I asked the govt for a map of private water leases for moorings, they said "We dont give leases for private moorings."
So the seabed is public property for the use of everyone and putting out a mooring doesn't mean you have ownership or first use of it.
Climbing over someone's rail to physically dispute someone on your mooring, makes you a sitting duck, with both hands occupied.
 
#72 ·
When I asked the govt for a map of private water leases for moorings, they said "We dont give leases for private moorings."
So the seabed is public property for the use of everyone and putting out a mooring doesn't mean you have ownership or first use of it.
Climbing over someone's rail to physically dispute someone on your mooring, makes you a sitting duck, with both hands occupied.
If I put out a ball, chain, permanent mooring etc.. assuming I paid for them all I do, in fact, own them. However I do not own the water-space or real estate my "anchor" sits on. Correct?

Assume for the moment I do own them, does leaving them in an area that is otherwise public mean no one else can use it? For instance, when hunting, and you leave your tree stand/blind on public land just because its yours doesn't mean your the only one who can use it. Etiquette dictates you shouldn't but the law says you may.

Confusing issue for sure.

Brad
s/v KIVALO
 
#68 ·
If someone picks up a private mooring and the tackle fails--let's say it was due to be replaced but the owner hadn't gotten to it--do you really think that the interloper is going to do the right thing by locating the owner, returning his float, and then locating his "lost" mushroom for him?

Picking up an unknown mooring--except in an emergency--is simply irresponsible.
 
#69 · (Edited)
If the tackle fails, you did the owner a favour , by making sure it failed while his boat was not on it while he was ashore. A good shot of reverse gives it a good test.
Allowing greedy people to take over public anchorages unchallenged, barring others from using what is a public asset, is simply irresponsible.
 
#70 ·
Picking up an unknown mooring--except in an emergency--is simply irresponsible.
Agree with this and practice the same... but..

It would be great to 'know' that some unoccupied buoys might be fair game under certain circumstances, esp here in BC where popular parks and bays fill up quickly and some of them do have unmarked buoys that are often otherwise unoccupied too.

But there's still the issue of whether or not the ground tackle is up to the job of holding YOUR boat, esp if some weather is on the way.

I also avoid anchoring amongst a field of buoys not only for fear of infringing on a buoy's usability, but also you just can't know how these various floaters are anchored, how much scope they may or may not have, seems to me the odds of snagging some part of the anchoring system(s) with your own tackle are pretty high. Who needs the grief?
 
#71 ·
I once fouled a mooring anchor with no buoy attached , in a popular anchorage. It was a concrete filled plastic container with bits of steel pointing out of it. I tied it to my bow, untangled my anchor from it, then sunk it in over 400 feet of water.
 
#74 · (Edited)
So that marina over there is in a spot I want to use. I should be able to tie up for free right? Why can't I take anyone's slip I please.? I mean after all we all own the water how can that marina be taking up such a prime piece of underwater real estate....? How can that fisherman place his trap there what if I want to anchor there and he is "impeding my right to navigation".....;)

Fact: Transport Canada issues mooring permits TP 13585 E . Some moorings don't even require the approval of the "Minister" (moorings that fall under Annex A) moorings that fall under Annex B would require the full approval process. If you don't like this fact take it up with your government and get them to stop issuing or allowing these moorings.

Taking the "law" into your own hands or being a vigilante is wrong in any country. These moorings, according to Transport Canada and numerous other Government resources, have a "legal" and Government sanctioned right to be there, if the rules are followed.

Whether one likes this or not is beside the point because it IS supported by the Canadian Government. Just like here in the US if you don't like it, talk to your representatives and get the laws changed. Why so many feel the need to become a Vigilante when they disagree with the laws of their own country is always amusing behavior to me..

Another point I came across are that some Provinces have granted leases to the submerged lands or ceded control to local governments so the law in Canada seems not a lot more "cut & dry" than it is here in the US. Here we have 50 states and thousands of towns where the submerged lands regulations can be different.... The submerged lands in the US are under each states control and the states usually cede control to the local towns to manage at their discretion. NH is one of the few states that does a large part of the submerged lands management from the state level. Course they only have a few miles of coastline to manage.

The laws in Canada, while different, still allow for "moorings". If you don't like that fight to change it LEGALLY not as a VIGILANTE....
 
#80 ·
So that marina over there is in a spot I want to use... Fact: Transport Canada issues mooring permits TP 13585 E . Some moorings don't even require the approval of the "Minister" (moorings that fall under Annex A) moorings that fall under Annex B would require the full approval process. These moorings, according to Transport Canada and numerous other Government resources, have a "legal" and Government sanctioned right to be there, if the rules are followed
The marina will have a water lease so therefore has a right to be there. You will also notice in both of my posts I mentioned unmarked moorings which legally have no right to be there. I'm not advocating any kind of vigilante justice, just a more of what I see as a common sense/help out your neighbor approach. I will concede that my views on property rights and owner ship differ from a lot of peoples but that is a subject for a different forum.

I stand by my original statement, if the mooring is unmarked and unused and you feel safe using it, use it.

Sent from my GT-P6210 using Tapatalk 2
 
#75 ·
Our yacht club has a long standing 'water lot lease' that essentially means we have control over the waterlot that the docks and slips occupy. AFAIK that's a requirement for any kind of structure, even a float home, for example.. but possible mooring permits and/or rules for marking the buoys that are laid are all that's required for a buoy..

That's not to say that there aren't plenty of floating 'camps' anchored in remote inlets without proper leases in place.... foreshore or waterlot...
 
#78 ·
Lots of different regs in different parts of the USA and Canada. Here in the PNW people are supposed to get a permit for a buoy but it seems like less than 50% do. I don't tie up to buoys (although I would in an emergency) because I don't agree with using someones property without permission. Even if I had no qualms about it I still wouldn't use a buoy I didn't know anything about because I wouldn't sleep all night anyway so what's the point? In the little bay in front of our place (we have a buoy) there were 12 buoys in September (2011), there were 4 left in May, they all drifted away at some point during the winter with NO BOATS tied to them. I watch boats come in and tie up to ours, and others, all the time and just shake my head (no, I don't row out and tell them to move, but I would if I knew it to be unsafe).
 
#81 ·
Its seems the objection and resultant sense of entitlement to use another's property, has to do with the permanency of a placed mooring. No one believes you can use my car, because I temporarily left it in a public parking lot, or my bicycle because its on a public rack. But some believe you can use my mooring? I might even support a regulation that only allowed one to be placed for a defined period or that requires the owner to actually lease the land (seabed) that it is on. However, you have no right to use it, just because such a regulation doesn't exist.
 
#82 ·
On a cruise of the East coast last year; my wife and I had several problems with moorings. We were unfamiliar with the areas, and went by our charts to locate safe anchoring areas. Many times, we arrived at a marked "anchorage", only to find it completely taken over by mooring balls. There was little or no room left for safe anchoring, and we sometimes ended up having to anchor in poor holding or deep areas. Many of the moorings were obviously rarely or never used.

I started anchoring in the mooring field when there was no other choice, but only used a mooring once in a remote bay, because there was no safe anchorage nearby, and it was nearly dark.

I think provisions should be made for safe anchoring in historical "anchorages".
 
#83 ·
I think provisions should be made for safe anchoring in historical "anchorages".
It's a bit better lately, but around here we 'lost' a lot of decent anchorages, esp the one-or-two-boat coves to fish farms. Many have moved on but I wonder about what's on the bottom after they leave.

We also have a lot of historical boom grounds, now abandoned but it's always a crapshoot dropping a hook in those areas.. you could easily end up hooked on an old chain, a 100' length of steel cable, and old winch bed....
 
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#87 ·
There are plenty of rules governing moorings, probably even in Maryland, so the thought experiment below may or may not be realistic depending on jurisdiction, but I think it gets to the heart of the matter:

Chef's pretty adamant that he owns the mooring but not the swing radius. Ok, fine. So in retaliation for his appropriation of public waters that I want to anchor in, but cannot, I'm going to place a mooring 10 feet from his at a time when his boat is absent.

My mooring in this scenario is legal, but Chef is denied use of his.

Now what?
 
#90 ·
Good point, I would imagine we both cant be on the mooring on the same time, since they are so close, so whoever is there first gets it.

BTW Thats usually not an acceptable risk for most and is the reason why when you think about that reasoning it isnt used used or done. Why put your mooring so close to mine when if I am attached to mine yours becomes unusable. Thats why people keep them boat lengths apart in the real world. Nice hypothetic, but fails the real world test of logic.

If you do it, Thats a risk you or I will take. You still cant use my mooring tackle.
(Ill make sure to leave a dinghy attached to the mooring from now on.):):)
 
#91 ·
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2 oz Baileys Irish Cream
1 oz Amaretto
1 oz Kahlua
small splash Vodka
small splash Grand Marnier
sprinkling Nutmeg
lots Ice
Fill blender 3/4 with ice (small cubes best).
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Add Kahlua & Amarreto. Fill the blender with Bailey's until liquid is 1/2 inch from top of ice cubes.Mix until smooth. Pour in hurricane glass and sprinkle some nutmeg on top!
 
#92 ·
Let's look at some of the pros of moorings:

1.They are a cheaper alternative for those of us who may not be able to afford a slip.
2. They actually open up more public access to the water, imagine if all of us on moorings suddenly needed a slip.
3. In busy anchorages they are better for the ecosystem of the sea floor.
4. In busy anchorages they allow for more boats with less swing room. Imagine if those moorings suddenly changed over to anchors, there would be even less room available.
5. A well maintained mooring is safer than an anchor.

The cons of moorings so far:
1. Transients who prefer to anchor are sometimes inconvenienced. They may even have to contribute a few dollars to the local economy.
 
#129 ·
So, you've saved for years to afford to cruise a while, and find that you can just do it; if you don't have to spend a lot of money every day just to tie up for the night. After all, the ocean belongs to all of us, right?

Let's look at the alternatives to anchoring. IF I can find a slip near where I want to stop; $3.00 - $4.00 per foot, per night! (I don't earn that much in one day.) How about renting a mooring for the night,($35.00) ? Call on the radio, "harbor master, harbor master, harbor master" any moorings available? "Sorry, all the rental moorings are taken. The rest are privately owned." Happened to us several times.

Anchoring is free. We will spend our available money anyway in the local economy, at stores, museums, food and entertainment.

For those thinking of cruising the same areas; I suggest you invest in good anchors and lots of chain.
 
#95 ·
This thread has degraded into redundant dribble because one or two individuals are rude enough to think that they can use someone's property without permission and then arrogant enough to try to defend it...foolishness.

Now I have to figure out how to unsubscribe...LOL
 
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