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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...
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Thread: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28... Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-06-2013 01:25 AM
puddlejockey
Re: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...

Thanks, all; for the quick responses and the input!

My wife and i spent a blustery day checking out marinas and over a dozen boats, and quickly made some decisions.
First; a 25 is apparently not large enough inside for her ( looked at 3 Hunter 25's, none of which were those mentioned in my OP, an older Catalina 25, and an O'Day 23.

Secondly, Oyster Po' Boys are a great thing...even in the winter ( more on that maybe later).

We DID, however, find s boats that we both like and are in our price range. The first is an 82 Hunter 27 with the "deeper Keel" (4'3??). It has the Yanmar inboard, roller furling, sails in probably 70% condition, and seems to have no major cracks above the water line. The front hatch does leak. Overall she seems well taken care of, but certainly needs a bottom cleaning. She has shore power, a marine head, and comes with a hatch AC unit. Asking price is effectively $6,000.00; when I include the owner willing to let us reap the benefits of him having paid through 2013 for the slip.

The second is a Lancer 28, that my wife loves the lines of. She's had a rough life, doesn't have the roller furling, an older 2 stroke OB, and has been retrofitted with wheel steering that feels "clunky"...almost like the old rack& pinions felt when they slipped a gear. On the Lancer, there are some deep cracks at the aft cleat and winch on the port side, as well as cracks around the base of the mast. The Lancer has the Porta-potty, and overall looks. I could probably pick up the Lancer for around 2 grand; which would leave allot more money for the attention needed. She is in desperate need of a bottom job.

From all accounts ( including my Dad who lived on a H34), the Hunters are a slower sailing boat, but I'm not certain that a boat with a tendency to right itself and point windward easily is a bad thing for a new Sailor.

In either case, unless I can negotiate them down enough to cover some "worst case" repairs, I'd have the boat pulled to get the hull looked at.

Finally; thanks for the PM! As soon as I've been a member long enough....I guess the board will actually let me read it.
01-03-2013 11:31 PM
Alex W
Re: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
a diesel inboard, which is less complex than a four stroke outboard, cheaper and quieter to run and more durable.
The diesel engine is less complex, but the integration throughout the boat is more complex. An outboard is a single unit (probably with an outboard gas tank) that can be removed easily for service or replacement. An inboard adds at least 3 through hulls (two below the water line for the stuffing box and water intake) and has the motor controls and fuel tank located in different parts of the boat. Inboards either have the drag of a fixed prop or the complexity and expense of a folding/feathering prop, where outboards are just lifted out of the water. Finally an entire outboard system for a sailboat is about $2k, where an entire inboard replacement system is more like $10k.

I spent last Sunday replacing a stuffing box, prop, and propshaft on my inboard so the extra complexity is at the front of my mind.

On the other hand when I'm using the motor I do prefer using the inboard. The lower rumble is nicer to listen to and it gets better fuel economy. For servicing I prefer the simplicity of the outboard. If I were trying to own a boat on a budget I'd have an outboard.

As for cockpit size you can usually get a very good estimate of it by comparing line drawings of boats on sailboatdata.com. Oddly the smaller boats (especially 22s) often have larger cockpits than the 25s. This is because they are intended primarily for day sailing where the 25s are trying to squeeze in a full cabin (with galley, head, etc) and that means giving up cockpit space. This isn't a universal rule, but seems to be fairly common.
01-03-2013 11:15 PM
manhattan08
Re: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...

Hi puddle jockey. Midway and holiday are two very different marinas and are fairly far apart. I current have my boat at waterstreet seaport and pay approx 255 a month for a 30 foot slip with water and power. The slip also has finger docks on each side making boarding the boat much easier ( for my wife!). No bar or bathhouse on the property though it has a restroom.

One of the boats near me is a Catalina 30 for sale. He's asking upper 20's, but made it clear to me that he was willing to come off a lot from that price. If you need some help looking at a boat on the lake, would be happy to give you my 2˘.

Feel free to pm me. Thanks,

Chris
01-03-2013 10:48 PM
bljones
Re: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...

Don't worry about a restaurant on site- you can cook and drink aboard, and will likely do that more often. Nice showers and decent toilets however, THAT will make the experience for your better half that much happier.
Here's a possibility for you, right on Lake Norman. Helms boats are proular in theCarolinas and always seem to be good value with largely satisfied owners.

1991 Helms Helms sailboat for sale in North Carolina
01-03-2013 10:31 PM
puddlejockey
Re: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...

Cap; I'd love some input on boats in that range (24-30) that have larger cockpits, and might actually be around in an affordable package if such a thing exists. One thing I CAN"T risk is becoming to mired in finding the "perfect" boat...and end up with nothing, or end up spending more than we can afford to chaulk up to "experience" if she decides it isn't for her.
01-03-2013 10:15 PM
puddlejockey
Re: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...

Thanks for all the responses, guys!

I called on the S2, to get more info and arrange a haul out for survey...and it's already been sold.

In calling around to various marinas, it appears that there are a LOT of boats out there for sale that never make the "inter-web"; so a few days of scouring the marinas may be well worth it.

Mahattan; I'm looking at All Seasons and Midway so far; two opposite ends of the spectrum on both cost and amenities. a major factor for us is a restaurant ( bar) at the marina or within walking distance...which Midway has, but without a bathhouse. All Seasons has more amenities and a BH, but no restaurant or bar. I'm also looking at Holiday....but there are downsides to having a large, busy bar attached to where you'd like to crash for the night. For a wet slip with power, there's a difference of over a grand between All Seasons and Midway... any input would be appreciated!

( Feel free to PM if you're more comfortable with that)

With the C25, I'd be looking at effectively adding almost $2000.00 to the cost for haul out, decommissioning, transportation, and relaunch....before having it surveyed or the bottom painted....
01-03-2013 02:30 PM
CapnSantiago
Re: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...

FWIW...4-5 people will be a tight fit on the boat sizes you're looking at with people crawling over each other and someone or two likely settting on the low side under heel...you may want to look for something with a larger cockpit for more sailing comfort for all not to mention room for the captain to steer/tack/adjust sails with such a group on board...
01-03-2013 02:22 PM
bljones
Re: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...

S2. Better boat, better value, better sailor, better accomodations than the other boats on your list. Although some will argue than an inboard is more complex than an outboard, if it is an S2 8.5 then it likely has a diesel inboard, which is less complex than a four stroke outboard, cheaper and quieter to run and more durable.
01-03-2013 02:15 PM
miatapaul
Re: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...

Yes, the best sailor of the bunch, and likely the best made would be the S2. That said the one in the best shape is likely to be the best boat. 3 grand on the Hunter with no electronics, and not well maintained sounds like a LOT of money. This is off season and so unless he has brand new sails and rigging I would think that boat is at best 1500, and likely and expensive prospect if the bottom has not been painted in 5 years. Even on a lake you should do it every few. Not that painting a bottom on a boat that small is going to be that expensive, but if they have not done that what else have they not done? I know there are a few Lake Norman sailors here so perhaps you could get someone here to look with you. I don't think in this size range and price range it makes sense to get a survey, as it will almost be as much as the boat.

As to maintenance the smaller and simpler the boat the lower the maintenance cost. Depends on how handy you are, it really is the labor that will kill you if you have to pay someone to do simple things.

Lake Norman sounds like a nice place to have a boat. I grew up going to Lake Lure every summer for a few weeks. We loved the area, it is so beautiful. Though Lake Lure does not seem to have any sailing at all, at least not back when we went.
01-03-2013 01:56 PM
manhattan08
Re: another "which one is better for us?" thread: H25, Catalina 25, S2 28...

Hi Puddlejockey.

I too have a boat on Lake Norman where I learned how to sail three years ago. I sail a Hunter 28.5 that I purchased in Oriental NC and had her hauled to LKN.

I would recommend buying the biggest boat your budget can afford as you will quickly grow out of a boat if its on the small side.

Out of the three boats you mentioned, I would look the hardest at the S2 as you will want the space if you are camping out over the weekend. Also, the bigger boat will be more comfortable riding through the waves created by 36+ ft. power boats going by you during the summer months.

Where are you looking to dock the boat? I have docked my boat at three different marinas on the lake and can give you some pro's / con's with different marinas that you are considering.
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