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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Flying the Gennaker
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Thread: Flying the Gennaker Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-14-2013 04:52 PM
zz4gta
Re: Flying the Gennaker

I don't know about the ballenger, I have only seen the Merits here on the bay. I have the Kenyon section as well.
01-14-2013 12:24 PM
SchockT
Re: Flying the Gennaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
Jackdale, you cannot determine if the spins are being flown from above the forestay or coming out of the standard jib halyard box from that photo.

The jib halyard box (no dedicated spin halyard) is set up so a halyard flying a spin will have minimum chafe. There is a center tang that the forestay connects to which will chafe through a halyard in time. Hoisting and dousing with the halyard over the forestay is very difficult due to the friction. Rigging up your jib halyards to cross inside the mast helps with this so you can jump from the high side on the starboard layline.

No they didn't all have the same masts. Ballenger made a bendy mast for it, and there was a Kenyon mast. Section 3350. The jib box looks like this Semantics if you want, but I'm not going to tell a new owner of a Merit to try and find the spin halyard sheave when there really isn't one. This jib box is a combo, but it's not the best set up.

I've run my spin halyard to the mast head, then to a restrainer just above this box which works out a lot better. Now we can do peels without having to worry about locking out a halyard.
Wow, that sheave box is a terrible design for spinnakers! The tang might as well be a knife blade, and it looks like you would get serious chaffe problems whether you went under or over the forestay. The positioning of sheaves is like the wing halyards we were talking about, but I can see why you avoid crossing over whenever possible. You could improve it greatly by slitting a piece of stainless tube and welding it over that knife edge. Then at least the halyard would have a smooth radius to slide over. Does the Ballenger spar have the same sheave box?
01-14-2013 09:48 AM
zz4gta
Re: Flying the Gennaker

Jackdale, you cannot determine if the spins are being flown from above the forestay or coming out of the standard jib halyard box from that photo.

The jib halyard box (no dedicated spin halyard) is set up so a halyard flying a spin will have minimum chafe. There is a center tang that the forestay connects to which will chafe through a halyard in time. Hoisting and dousing with the halyard over the forestay is very difficult due to the friction. Rigging up your jib halyards to cross inside the mast helps with this so you can jump from the high side on the starboard layline.

No they didn't all have the same masts. Ballenger made a bendy mast for it, and there was a Kenyon mast. Section 3350. The jib box looks like this Semantics if you want, but I'm not going to tell a new owner of a Merit to try and find the spin halyard sheave when there really isn't one. This jib box is a combo, but it's not the best set up.

I've run my spin halyard to the mast head, then to a restrainer just above this box which works out a lot better. Now we can do peels without having to worry about locking out a halyard.
01-11-2013 05:00 PM
SchockT
Re: Flying the Gennaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
On our Choate 40 we had a 3 halyard setup.. a central 'jib' halyard right under the forestay tang and two 'wing halyards, one on either iside that could serve as a second jib halyard or as spin halyards. These were not above the forestay and so using the stbd wing halyard for a long stbd tack spin reach was of concern due to potential chafe across the forestay.

Which halyard we used for jib changes was decided when possible by determining which 'spinnaker' halyard was best kept free for that purpose.
Yes we had a similar arrangement on an Olson 911 we campaigned for several seasons, although chaffe wasn't a concern because there were vertical rollers on either side of the wing halyards. If memory serves there was also chaffe protection on the forestay. I would consider those wing halyards to be spin halyards, but they were also useful for headsail peels.
01-11-2013 04:10 PM
Faster
Re: Flying the Gennaker

On our Choate 40 we had a 3 halyard setup.. a central 'jib' halyard right under the forestay tang and two 'wing halyards, one on either side that could serve as a second jib halyard or as spin halyards. These were not above the forestay and so using the stbd wing halyard for a long stbd tack spin reach was of concern due to potential chafe across the forestay.

Which halyard we used for jib changes was decided when possible by determining which 'spinnaker' halyard was best kept free for that purpose.
01-11-2013 03:48 PM
SchockT
Re: Flying the Gennaker

I guess I should have said they used to be widely raced. Back in the '90s there were some pretty big fleets. Perhaps they have died off.

I can't say that I have ever seen a race boat fly a spinnaker from a halyard that is inside the foretriangle. I also have not found any pics of a Merit doing so. There ARE plenty of pics of Merits flying spins outside the foretriangle. There were 780 Merits built, and I am guessing that they weren't all equipped with the same masts.

Maybe it is just semantics. What you call genoa halyards actually exit the mast in such a way that they are dual purpose. Perhaps they exit on either side of the forestay attachment?

I agree that the default side to douse on is to be set up for a bear-away set, but I have been in plenty of races where we were reasonably sure we wanted a gybe set at the next top mark, and have doused accordingly. Sometimes we changed our minds, but then sometimes we changed our minds about a bear-away too. The point was it doesn't matter which halyard you are on, you can hoist or douse on either side. (Unless of course you are using some very unconventional halyard arrangement that prohibits it?)
01-11-2013 01:27 PM
jackdale
Re: Flying the Gennaker



merit25 : Arizona Merit 25 Sailing
01-11-2013 01:13 PM
zz4gta
Re: Flying the Gennaker

  1. SchockT, please provide a photo of a 'fleet' of Merits flying chutes on a halyard that exits above the forestay.
  2. Merits do not have blocks above the forestay that you can fly a spin from
  3. typically they are flown from the port halyard on W/L courses and always doused on the 'left'.
  4. yes, you CAN fly a chute from a genny halyard.
  5. they are not as active as you think, and "rigged properly" needs to be defined before determining if it is or not. What is your experience with the Merit 25 OD fleet?
  6. Dousing - racers will douse on the left (port) if at all possible to set up for a bare away set (port roundings). I haven't met to many tacticians that can call the next set on the first downwind leg 2 miles in advance. Clearly I'm sailing with a bunch of hacks.

I'm not going to get into halyard management in this thread. But I'm all ears if you know a better way to set up a Merit 25. Although, knowing how they come from the factory is a good start.
01-10-2013 01:55 PM
SchockT
Re: Flying the Gennaker

Of course Merits have spin halyards! Just because there is no block doesn't mean it isn't a spin halyard. If it exits above the forestay it is a spin hal, if it exits below the forestay it is a geny hal. You can use a spin halyard for a genoa, but you cannot use a geny halyard for a spinnaker.They are a very active one design racer, and as such would be rigged appropriately. A quick search will show entire fleets of Merits flying spinnakers from points above the forestay.

Dousing a chute on the same side as the halyard is good practice to minimize friction, but it isn't necessary. Most racers are more likely to douse on the side they are going to hoist on for the next down wind leg regarless of which halyard they are on.
01-10-2013 01:16 PM
zz4gta
Re: Flying the Gennaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
If the block is above the forestay...
Merits don't have spin halyards (no block above forestay. Just two jib halyards. Considering they're not racing (sock) it's much easier to douse on the side they set on.

Halyard management would be better discussed in another thread.
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