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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > overwhelmed w/ electrical
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Thread: overwhelmed w/ electrical Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-10-2013 10:12 PM
Tempest
Re: overwhelmed w/ electrical

Dave, it's in the cabin on a shelf next to my nav station and it's got a wireless remote.

There was no ideal place to build it into the cabinetry. So the case served that purpose and provides some moisture protection. It was a little more wiring than I expected..but it's there for the duration now.
01-10-2013 09:52 PM
chef2sail
Re: overwhelmed w/ electrical

Yes..put the stero in the cabin...forgo the case and wire in or use a wireless remote in the cockpit.
01-10-2013 08:05 PM
Tempest
Re: overwhelmed w/ electrical

So, 2 seasons ago, I replaced my stereo player and also used a water-resistant cover like this. As I recall, I had to wire the radio to a harness inside the case and then use the wiring exiting the case to connect to power and speakers. There was also an inline fuse in the mix.

The only way, I could think to do that was by using heat shrink butt splices
(alot of them) Was there another way to do that job?

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...9143&id=944265
01-10-2013 07:38 PM
ShoalFinder
Re: overwhelmed w/ electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Great picture of the anchors Maine hanging in the splice
It's a great picture. You can do the same with a plastic tie wrap. Who wants to lay down and take a nice long nap under them? Nah. Me neither.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
A lot of electrical equipment comes new with a short run of wire for example VHF. mascerator pump, diaphram pump etc usually has a 4 ft length of wire so you have a choice if your run is 15 ft to the back of the panel. You can properly butt splice the two wires which came with the unit meaning heating shrink as well or you can take all the wires off and run 2 continuous wires to the panel, except you have get to put the inline fuse and splice the positive side anyway.

Properly done as you said its just as good an install. I dont go out of my way to use them, but there are times when it only makes logical sense,

dave

Totally agree. Just don't do a butt splice and then bundle thirty wires around it and then wrap it all up with electrical tape. Ten years later some poor schmoe who has no idea why he has intermittent power flickers will have no idea where to look.


I'm tapping out. It's crazy to continue arguing over butt splices of all things, so I'll stop. I am obviously in the minority here.

My whole intention of my original post was to warn a non-electrical Original Poster about the dangers of using butt splices. I stand by that. If nobody agrees then I'll just admit to being a crazy old coot. I'll just shake my cane at people who use them and say, "You'll be sorry, sonny! Maybe not today, or next week, but you'll be sorrrrrryyyyy!!!!"
01-10-2013 07:26 PM
Maine Sail
Re: overwhelmed w/ electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by rugosa View Post
Well it should at least have an electrical system...
01-10-2013 07:26 PM
Maine Sail
Re: overwhelmed w/ electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoalFinder View Post
I'm very happy you have had good luck with them.
Why would I not? Can you please expound on the scientific termination differnces between a ring terminal, spade terminal, friction fit and bullet vs the butt splice. Please tell us why this crimp juncture is inferior to the others. We want the scientific explanation please...



[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoalFinder View Post
We obviously come from two different worlds,
I live on Earth and you do and we're both sailors....


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoalFinder View Post
so I won't take offense to your obvious swipes at me.
And I won't take offense to the fact that you called every US boat builder, myself, folks like Nigel Calder, the ABYC, NMMA, and every other competent person or organization on the subject grossly incompetent and "not qualified"..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoalFinder View Post
If one of my electricians or technicians ever used a butt splice in any vessel or any factory- they would be shown the door on the spot. Gross incompetence. It's the equivalent of a mechanic using pliars to tighten a bolt, or a carpenter beating in nails with a crescent wrench. That person is simply not qualified to work here, wherever "here" may be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoalFinder View Post
In my entire professional experience, using butt splices would be incomprehensible.
On solid copper wire the use of any crimp fitting should be incomprehensible. On shore the vast majority of wire is solid copper to which you simply don't crimp.

For multi-stranded wire, again, please give us the scientific differences between the crimp juncture of a butt vs. every other crimp terminal and why the butt is more failure prone or the "Devil".


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoalFinder View Post
But standards are standards.
Speaking of standards can you please show us the source for the Mil-Specs that show a butt splice is "verboten"..?


I have the crimp testing Mil-Spec MIL-T-XXXX (I'll let you find it), the NASA crimping spec and USCAR crimping specs as well the ABYC specs. I know what they say and what they don't say.

Please show us where the Mil-Specs prohibits butt splices and why a butt splice is any less of a splice than a ring/fork etc. and then we can have a good discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoalFinder View Post
You operate in the world in which you live. My early years were spent in in environments where you would be fired for being in possession of an adjustable wrench.
Well if anyone fired me for doing they'd they'd have a damn tough time in court backing up their grounds for termination. I'd win hands down with a wrongful termination case. Why? Because there is nothing to support your paranoia of butt splices being inferior to any other crimp.

Please bring us the science that shows butts are inferior to rings or forks or any other crimp terminal so we can discuss this without any biases and just the data.
01-10-2013 06:46 PM
chef2sail
Re: overwhelmed w/ electrical

Great picture of the anchors Maine hanging in the splice

A lot of electrical equipment comes new with a short run of wire for example VHF. mascerator pump, diaphram pump etc usually has a 4 ft length of wire so you have a choice if your run is 15 ft to the back of the panel. You can properly butt splice the two wires which came with the unit meaning heating shrink as well or you can take all the wires off and run 2 continuous wires to the panel, except you have get to put the inline fuse and splice the positive side anyway.

Properly done as you said its just as good an install. I dont go out of my way to use them, but there are times when it only makes logical sense,

dave
01-10-2013 06:26 PM
rugosa
Re: overwhelmed w/ electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
If someone can name me one US sailboat builder who has never used a butt splice I will send you a 10 pack of FTZ adhesive lined butt splices for free.
Does this count? Rich Passage Minto Sailing Dinghy
01-10-2013 06:13 PM
ShoalFinder
Re: overwhelmed w/ electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
SF apparently has a very strong "bias" he picked up somewhere, perhaps the navy, that is simply not based in anything other than a bias.. Again PROPERLY made butt

BTW I have YET to see ONE builder of sailboats who did not have some butt splices on a new boat. All the way from Morris to Island Packet to Catalina and everyone in-between. Bilge pumps? WEMA fuel senders? The list of devices that make use of butts a necessity for builders is pretty extensive. In-line fuse holders? Nah, who needs those.......

If someone can name me one US sailboat builder who has never used a butt splice I will send you a 10 pack of FTZ adhesive lined butt splices for free.

You are right. Much of it is bias, and much of it is the codes I have had to meet. I haven't spent twenty years working on personal watercraft and digging wells on the farm.

We can disagree without the venom, don't you think?

As to the rampant use of butt splices by sailboat manufacturers, well that doesn't really prove anything does it? We are talking about the same guys who drill screws in a weatherdeck without bedding them.

I'm happy that you are happy with butt splices. I see them as a necessary evil. A butt splice on a new install? That is criminal on somebody's part. Actually, it's just cheaping out, but I repeat myself.
01-10-2013 06:08 PM
ShoalFinder
Re: overwhelmed w/ electrical

I'm very happy you have had good luck with them. I have not. You have your experiences and I have mine.

We obviously come from two different worlds, so I won't take offense to your obvious swipes at me. In my entire professional experience, using butt splices would be incomprehensible. Is that based on historically poor installation? Undoubtedly. But standards are standards. You operate in the world in which you live. My early years were spent in in environments where you would be fired for being in possession of an adjustable wrench.
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