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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > No Sea Trial
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Thread: No Sea Trial Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-18-2013 01:36 AM
NJBoatDad
Re: No Sea Trial

Makes sense to me.
01-16-2013 05:41 PM
youmeandthed
Re: No Sea Trial

Ok, first off a broker works for themselves. They are happy when boats sell and they get referrals. Not many people leave a good boat deal with both sides feeling happy, but if after a while when the emotions subside, the two parties are enjoying the rewards of the trade, life is good.

When I sold my previous boat, it got old dealing with tire kickers. So when I bought my next boat i went in with a feeler email to see how motivated the seller was, then I low balled and put few restrictions (no survey or test sail) on the purchase agreement. I just asked for the boat to start and that it floated and that everything listed in the ad was there.

Do your research, and if you want to buy it, enter the negotiations well equipped with what the boat is worth and put pressure on the seller. Believe me, the market puts a lot of pressure on them anyways.

But the owner in this case owns the boat, she can do what ever she wants with it.
01-14-2013 08:48 PM
Minnewaska
Re: No Sea Trial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philzy3985 View Post
...I never really heard of a surveyor going on the sea trial, but it's an added security-measure if he obliges...
It would be most common that the surveyor go on the seal trial and the buyer is optional. That was the case for my current boat. I was 500 miles away during the sea trial. How would the surveyor complete their report, if they weren't along?
01-14-2013 08:33 PM
Philzy3985
Re: No Sea Trial

All this advice is great. A broker listing the boat is working for the seller. The surveyors you hire should be independent, contacted and hired independently, and they are working to protect you.

So it's buyer + surveyor vs. broker + seller.

At any time, as buyer, you can walk away. Clarify that when you open your wallet or checkbook for the deposits. But be prepared to shovel out $$$ for the deposit and surveyor and if the boat is lifted, which it should be. I never really heard of a surveyor going on the sea trial, but it's an added security-measure if he obliges.

Good luck!
01-14-2013 08:24 PM
Minnewaska
Re: No Sea Trial

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Here is the definition of "Agent" from Black's Law Dictionary: "A person authorized by another (principal) to act for or in place of him; one intrusted with another's business." (Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed. 1991).

.....As a buyer looking at boat listings, you should reasonably assume the listing broker is an agent of the seller until you discover otherwise.
The bolded section is the point.

I've never known a broker that was authorized to act for or in place of the seller, so why would you assume they are an agent of the seller? They are the representative of the seller, they work for the seller, but they're not the seller's agent. They have no authority.
01-14-2013 06:55 PM
HeartsContent
Re: No Sea Trial

My preference is to buy from a private seller, when possible. For this use Craigslist.org and sailboatlistings.com to find private sellers. I sold my boat fast on Sailboatlistings.com and can't imagine what a broker could have added other than cost.

I find that when a private seller is happy to take you out, it says a lot about his confidence in the condition of the boat.
01-14-2013 06:21 PM
bljones
Re: No Sea Trial

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
As a buyer looking at boat listings, you should reasonably assume the listing broker is an agent of the seller until you discover otherwise.
I would figure that this is self-evident.

And, again, this is not necessarily a bad thing.
A broker's job is 1. sell the boat. 2. Sell the boat for the highest dollar possible.
An effective broker will not focus on 2. to the detriment of 1.
Not all brokers are great, but the majority aren't wastrels, scam artists, thieves, grifters or general ne'er do wells.

Otherwise the profession would be much more tightly regulated...
like the legal profession.

(c'mon, I couldn't help it. )




I posit that the vast majority of brokered sales are satisfactory and hassle free. Few folks ever start a thread to give an attaboy to a broker who did his/her job well.

However, many folks will happily and loudly complain when the wheels fall off a deal, even if they are at fault, partially or completely, and, with relish, tear a strip off a broker. On every forum. Repeatedly.
01-14-2013 06:03 PM
jameswilson29
Re: No Sea Trial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
That is a good technical question. Typically, the broker can not commit on behalf of the owner, so they are not technically an agent. In standard contracts, they are often listed as an independent third party with their own rights and responsibilities.
Here is the definition of "Agent" from Black's Law Dictionary: "A person authorized by another (principal) to act for or in place of him; one intrusted with another's business." (Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed. 1991).

A yacht broker is most certainly either an agent for the seller, an agent for the buyer, a dual agent, or, by contract, an independent contractor rendering limited, specific services in connection with a transaction and not an agent for either party, if allowed by statute. Although there are uniform laws on agency and partnership, state law will govern the licensing and duties of agents transacting business within the particular state.

As a buyer looking at boat listings, you should reasonably assume the listing broker is an agent of the seller until you discover otherwise.
01-14-2013 02:59 PM
Ninefingers
Re: No Sea Trial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
That hour on the water is another hour drive to the boat, probably 30 mins to prep for castoff and then another hour to rinse down and button her back up. Then drive an hour home.

Keep your $200. I would only spend 4.5 hours of my life, if I had reason to believe you were a serious buyer. Its a huge part of a work day, which may cost more. Or too much of a weekend.

The game is supply and demand. If you will only buy a boat that allows a pre-offer sea-trial, then you've defined a substantially smaller supply. That's okay, if its okay with you.
I guess I was thinking more in lines of a private seller. Usually a time that is convenient to them can be arranged. Sort of a "let me know when your down at the boat next and I will make it work" sort of thing. What would be a reasonable amount for you to take me out on your boat?

Anyhow, I appreciate your opinions. Buying a boat is new to me. I have only owned fractions.

Edit again: You're boat is probably worth a fair chunk of change, and it's the size of a house, so I understand where you're coming from. I was thinking more in the line of an average 30 footer under private sale.
01-14-2013 02:17 PM
Minnewaska
Re: No Sea Trial

Quote:
Originally Posted by algee View Post
I don't think a Broker is an agent for the owner, any lawyers out there?
That is a good technical question. Typically, the broker can not commit on behalf of the owner, so they are not technically an agent. In standard contracts, they are often listed as an independent third party with their own rights and responsibilities.
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