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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > How Much Should I Offer
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-23-2013 07:05 PM
TQA
Re: How Much Should I Offer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunfeld View Post
I asked for opinions on 3 boats on another thread (actually two threads by mistake) and received some great feed back.

Now I'd like to ask another question that assumes a lot of ifs but I'll ask it anyway.

Where should I start with my fist offer - 20% below asking, 30%, 10%?

Thanks all.
STOP RIGHT THERE. BEWARE there are many boats out there that are vastly overpriced.

What makes you think the asking price has ANY relationship to the value of the boat.

Do your due diligence on the work required then work out how much it is worth to you. OK if it is a 3 year old Bene then you canhave a market price. But a 35 year old Bombay may be worth a great deal or have negative equity.
01-23-2013 05:20 PM
deltaten
Re: How Much Should I Offer

Find out what it's generally worth. Do your due dilligence and value it and all the add-ons honestly. Research what similar SOLD boats have gone for. Then deduct that from the asking price. Calculate the difference to percentage then drop that much from the generally accepted price. Ends up yer offer will be the same down as the seller's is up.
A good starting point for negotiations. If ya even it out, you'll end up at or near the *real* price.

$.02 and worth what ya pay for it !
01-23-2013 04:14 PM
Barquito
Re: How Much Should I Offer

Having shopped a little for boats in a more modest price range, I found that the sellers that had knowledge of the market for their boat, priced near market values. The owners that priced according to what they bought it for, or what they had sunk into it the the past, priced way too high. Not too many at much below market value. Not a very transparent market compared to houses and cars.
01-21-2013 07:42 PM
theonecalledtom
Re: How Much Should I Offer

Having sold a boat recently I actually priced it at what I considered market value and got what I was asking for within a few weeks with no haggling. I wouldn't have shifted much but I did fork out for any major issues found in the survey.

Having bought a boat recently I offered a fair bit less than the offer, expecting to go up a bit, mainly because the boat was (lol!!) beyond what we could really afford but we figured what the hell its worth a try. The seller came down to a point we could afford (cough cough) and I hope he's as happy with the deal as I am (VERY).

Moral of the story is do some comparison shopping, look at similar boats, sniff around to see what they've been selling at, figure out what price fits the market and your pocket and say hi to the seller. Worst case they'll say no.
01-21-2013 06:39 PM
miatapaul
Re: How Much Should I Offer

Boat US offers a free service to give you a "blue book" type value. It is called value check

BoatUS Value Check

You do not have to be a member to use the service. But the bottom line is how much is the boat worth to you, offer a bit less than that and hope to compromise on that number. Values can very greatly based on condition, equipment, regional demands and emotion.

I will have to say if you can get a broker to say what recent sales were, but that does not take into account private sales. I believe Boat US uses info from there insurance database that likely is the most accurate.
01-21-2013 06:26 PM
SailingJackson
Re: How Much Should I Offer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
You've gotten a lot of good information above. NADA is a good source of basic pricing information, .........
[much deleted]
Looks like JIMGO and I did almost simultaneous posts, suggesting basically the same technique. He used an industry "average" as his theoretical optimum boat, I used my personal desires to set the optimum boat. Either way, it's the same technique.

Whether or not you follow the process exactly, I do think it's a worthwhile exercise in accounting. Like JIMGO, I was surprised how low a price my calculations put on some boats. I was also surprised how high a value other boats warranted by my calculations. I did it all on an Excel spreadsheet. In the end, I paid $115,000 for a boat and then sunk another $35,000 into it. Seems way overpriced for a Catalina 36 but I have about the best equipped C36 that exists. I also had to pay $7000 to ship it to the midwest, but that was part of the calculations.

G. J.
01-21-2013 06:21 PM
barefootnavigator
Re: How Much Should I Offer

This whole thread is kinda pointless, trying to value a boat that is 30-40 years old by published spec's will tell you very little. You more than likely have to have a survey to purchase this boat and any reputable surveyor will tell you exactly what its worth. The question is can you afford it. Lets for fun assume you get it for free and say its 35 years old. Here are a few things you may need to consider.
New sails 15-25K
New rigging 5-10K
Is the mast wood? if so does it need to be replaced? 20-40K
does it have teak decks? if it does that's 4000 potential leaks and a rotting deck. 20-40K
new engine 20-30K
have the tank and chain plates been replaced? on this boat they need to be 5-10K
Osmosis? 5-15K
This is just the start and 90-170K not including purchase price just to make it a basic sound boat. I love these boats but remember there is a reason a price on a boat is too low and its usually because the current owners let them fall from grace. If I were you I would find the nicest one on the market, offer full asking price and then renegotiate based on the survey findings. I have been doing this about 25 years and have seen just about everything in the book. On the other hand if you have the time to do it all yourself and are very resourceful you might get a great bargain in a fixer
01-21-2013 06:17 PM
SailingJackson
Re: How Much Should I Offer

When I was faced with that issue I resorted to a boring accountant/engineer sort of approach. I first established the equipment I wanted in a boat, my optimum, then went shopping for the things needed by each of the boats under consideration. One needed a new autopilot and chart plotter, one needed new sails, another boat needed new chart plotter and radar.

For each boat I created an equipment list of what it would take to bring it up to my requirements for a optimum boat. The list created an adjustment factor for each boat. If boat A need $15k, but boat B needed $22K, I would make equivalent offers to each owner, subtracting the appropriate adjustment factor. I explained clearly to the owners what my process was, that I was going to start low and rotate, offering to each owner. I would start at a $$$ amount that I expected no one to accept and would be stepping up a few thousand each round. Any one of those guys could have sold me their boat, it came down to the first guy to accept an offer.

A couple of additional points: 1) I wanted to go sailing soon and not spend time fixing boats, so my adjustment factors considered all the work to be done by a marina. If you're dealing with a professional marina I found most any equipment costs about 210% of the retail list price. A $1000 list price radar can be had at Defenders for $900, but buy it from a factory certified installation outfit and you'll shell out $2100 by the time you're done. Similar ratios for AIS, chartplotter, autopilot, and other stuff. 2) Add discounted bonus dollars for nice features that you can appreciate but are not part of your requirements. For example, the boat I ended up with had a $2800 Max Prop. I would never have shelled out $3000 to add one to a boat, but I did appreciate the advantages it offered. I discounted the actual value of a MaxProp and offered that boat owner an extra $500.

The results were pretty good. Nobody got pissed off because I low balled them, they understood the process. I narrowed it down to 5 boats. After the initial absurdly low bid most owners would be straight up about their minimum (call me back if your bidding process gets it up to $XXX). Some owners just said no and waited for their next bid. I do have to confess that this systematic approach was made easier because I had earlier narrowed it to one model which is perhaps one of the most common boats. I wanted a Catalina 36, something made between 2000 and 2007. I found 9 boats that met that description, inspected 7 of them, and made offers on 5 of them.

G. Jackson
01-21-2013 06:11 PM
jimgo
Re: How Much Should I Offer

You've gotten a lot of good information above. NADA is a good source of basic pricing information, but you have to remember that their prices are for boats in "average" condition. You need to add or subtract based on the condition of the boat you're considering. That's the approach I tend to take because, in the end, the boat is worth whatever you're willing to pay for her. But I agree with the above comments, you shouldn't work from the asking price and simply knock a percentage off. There could be a great boat that someone just wants to get rid of (e.g., the captain/primary owner/sailer of the boat suddenly died, family doesn't want/can't use/won't use the boat) and is actually offered significantly under value - do you automatically open with a 30% off offer and risk running the seller away? No, you need to do some homework first.

I'm currently shopping for a boat, and here's the approach I'm using (and that I used with my last boat): I start with the NADA, and then I do a careful inspection (not the formal survey) to find the major repairs that would be needed to bring the boat back up to NADA "average" condition. I then figure out the costs to make those repairs and subtract that from the NADA. For example, there was one boat that I looked at that needed a new headliner (the previous owner took it out, and current owner hadn't replaced it), there was a cracked bulkhead that would need to be replaced, and a lot of the hardware needed to be rebedded as there was evidence of water penetration into the cabin in several places. Except for the cracked bulkhead, the repairs were all things that I could do myself, but the seller isn't going to get the benefit of my "free" labor - I priced in the cost of having someone do those repairs. In the end, I realized that the boat that had an NADA of about $13,000 and an asking price of $10,000 was really only worth about $3500. The seller wasn't happy to hear this, and rejected the offer, but it did help me understand what I was in for if I bought her. It also made it easy for me (intellectually and emotionally) to walk away from the boat when the seller refused to go below $9000.

Is this your first boat?
01-21-2013 06:07 PM
Sabreman
How Much Should I Offer

Try the Boat/Us boat valuation. It's they get back to you with specific info pretty quick. Not sure if you need to be a member but would be worth joining for just this reason (I've been a member for 25 yrs, and don't recall). They give their valuation based on the same comps that the broker won't let you see.
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