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Hell Gate

8K views 39 replies 21 participants last post by  downeast450 
#1 ·
What would be the strategy for navigating thru Hell Gate from say Northport to Liberty Landing Marina? Looking at Eldridge seems like 2 hrs after high water at the Battery would work? If I get delayed and hit those 5 kts at the Gate, can I control the boat if my max hull speed is 7 kts?
Also what side of Roosevelt Island is best or does it matter? Mast height is only 48'.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Broke, 1 1/2 to 2 hours after high tide @ battery sounds about right. If you're looking at eldridge it also gives you the times of the current changes at the gate. You want the southwest ebb. You can probably time it to pass under the Throggs neck bridge 1/2 hour before the turn, if you are looking for slack. It's really only about two hour passage so you can be a few hours late for slack at the gate and still enjoy a nice ride down the river.
The tugs and barges also look for slack at the gate, so you are more likely to have big company with that timing. Not usually a problem. I've just slowed and let them pass, or waited until they come through. Monitor ch 9 and 16.

You want to leave roosevelt island to port as there's a rr bridge on the other side.
I would just check the local notice to mariners and make sure there are no " security zones" on the day of your passage. Sometimes they close the west side of the river due to a UN function.

The passage is about 15 miles, so missing the favorable current could add hours to your trip. I'd sit it out in either City Island or Manahasset bay or somewhere like that if I missed the turn, rather than make 2 kn. against the current. There's no diesel on City Island, that I'm aware of so if you needed fuel I'd use Manhasset bay.

The Max current can exceed 5 knots at time and in certain places It's unlikely that you'll be making max hull speed. against it. You'll get some chop that knocks your speed down. I wouldn't attempt it against max flood.
 
#3 ·
Broke, 1 1/2 to 2 hours after high tide @ battery sounds about right. If you're looking at eldridge it also gives you the times of the current changes at the gate. You want the southwest ebb. You can probably time it to pass under the Throggs neck bridge 1/2 hour before the turn, if you are looking for slack. It's really only about two hour passage so you can be a few hours late for slack at the gate and still enjoy a nice ride down the river.
The tugs and barges also look for slack at the gate, so you are more likely to have big company with that timing. Not usually a problem. I've just slowed and let them pass, or waited until they come through. Monitor ch 9 and 16.

You want to leave roosevelt island to port as there's a rr bridge on the other side.
I would just check the local notice to mariners and make sure there are no " security zones" on the day of your passage. Sometimes they close the west side of the river due to a UN function.

The passage is about 15 miles, so missing the favorable current could add hours to your trip. I'd sit it out in either City Island or Manahasset bay or somewhere like that if I missed the turn, rather than make 2 kn. against the current. There's no diesel on City Island, that I'm aware of so if you needed fuel I'd use Manhasset bay.

The Max current can exceed 5 knots at time and in certain places It's unlikely that you'll be making max hull speed. against it. You'll get some chop that knocks your speed down. I wouldn't attempt it against max flood.
Never been through Hell's Gate but I would expect this kind of traffic on channel 13. Tugs and barges are not even allowed on Ch 9.
 
#8 ·
Weve gone through the Gate at least 40 times. Bucking current is not the way to go.

Anthing giving you slack to full ebb is fine. Yes you will be able to control your boat at max ebb..We have often shot through at 13.4 knots sog so we could continue to ride the ebb all the way out New York Bay at over 10 knots sog although at that speed in an emergency it is tough to steer. There is far less traffic away from the slack time though.
 
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#9 ·
Chef is correct with anything from slack to full ebb going down
(south on the east River).
Can ride an incoming current heading west from Northport and
continue down East River all the way to/out lower harbor on out going current.
Places to wait for current to go down river:
Little Bay, at foot of Throgs Neck Bridge (southeast)
Little Neck Bay, 1nm southeast, no services.
Manhasset Bay, 3nm east, all services...recommended for diesel over City Island.
City Island, 3nm north of bridge between City Is. and Hart Is.,
suggest do not stop for diesel at north end of City Island unless careful as is shoals and rocks just outside channel.
Or pick up guest mooring at Steppingstone Marina 2nm east of bridge (ch 71) as this is our home marina, give some notice and come say hello. But beware of Steppingstone rocks triangle,
marked to the north by the lighthouse and to the south by nuns
#2 and#4.
Pass west of Roosevelt Island, usually no security issues unless president or all heads of state at UN. Have gone down river on and around sept. 11th with no problem.
Can get up close and personal with Statue of Liberty no problem,
but watch for shoals on 3 sides north, south, and west actually
good place to stop out of traffic for site seeing or some lunch.
Or, if need to make time down to lower bay go through Buttermilk
Channel between Governors Island and Brooklyn.
Lot of history on that stretch of water...
civil war/confederate prison camp/Nike missile base on Hart Island
America Cup boats built on City Island
Typhoid Mary imprisoned on North Brother Island
British prison ships during revolutionary war at Wallabout Bay
same site as Brooklyn Navy yard
Fultons steamboat
Washington retreating across river from Brooklyn
(rowed across by Mass. sailors/fishermen)
and on and on... sorry...
 
#10 · (Edited)
Here's some Hell Gate advice given to me by a 'commercial' some time ago. For the past 10+ years or so its worked 'perfect':

General.
Use Eldrige Tide Tables to plan to cross Hell Gate at SLACK WATER.
Your best bet is to plan the trip so as to keep moving, if you're ahead of schedule run slower rather than just stopping. As a tug guy I want any pleasure craft to be predictable, I am relying on it really, which means not going in circles in confined areas. If you must stop for a bit, going east through the river I would wait well north of the battery. From there south there is just too much current as well as tug, ferry, and dinner boat traffic to be tacking or motoring around with no purpose. People do, but you asked.
Coming the other way there is plenty of room anywhere east of the Brothers, but you need to be aware of the little stuff, sand scows etc. coming off moorings, coming and going from Flushing Bay, and the other little creeks. Most traffic is passing trough.
Listen to channel 13!! Most tug guys dont really want to talk to you, but they probably will. Your best bet is to listen so you know what is happening around you. If you want to talk make your life easier by making your transmissions short, and knowing the difference between one whistle and two both meeting and overtaking. Plenty of recreational passes through everyday. Its really not a huge deal, but if you do decide to hit slack water in all likelyhood you will encounter a greater number of commercial vessels.
Another radio hint, listen to vessel traffic, the east river is channel 12, anything moving through the East River checks in at the Throgsneck or Brooklyn Bridge, and each time somebody checks in they get a rundown of all the traffic and their locations. It would be kind of like listening in on a weather net. Channel 12 is also anchorage control and the Kills south of the AK Railroad Bridge so dont get you landmarks confused.
Most of the commercial traffic especially the big stuff tries to hit slack water or within 30 minutes to an hour either side of it. Thats not to say there wont be traffic at all stages of the tide, but it is not uncommon to have multiple units on both sides of the gates stacked up waiting on each other to get through. A week ago I was fourth in line on my side coming around N. Brother Island.
You need the current tables for slack water, the tide tables wont help you here. I would agree that if your boat can manage it ride the flood through planing to be at least to Rikers Island and hour before Slack at the gate, beware of the current from pier 17 through the Williamsburgh bridge as they are very strong here and you will not want to be against them.

Going North start your trip at the Battery 2 hours after the low.

Going south start your trip from Throgs Neck 2 hours after high at the Battery.

Wear PFD's, stay in the center, have a sharp lookout for barge traffic coming around corners. Have your VHF on Ch13 and an aitr horn handy. Know what one blast means, as distinct from 2. Have a camera ready at all times for magnificant views, and 2 days after a heavy rain,a boat hook ready, if you see any bodies or other debris that may foul your passageway.
 
#12 ·
Yes, that would be the HMS Hussar, went down right at the gate. Story goes that several other ships transfered their payroll and other loot/cargo to it so it was heavily burdened and carring much $ equal to well over 1 billion in todays dollars...anyone have a snorkel and fins??
 
#13 ·
Rich: Thanks for the Info. One thing I don't understand. You say cross Hell's Gate at slack water. Later on you say to start my trip from Throgs Neck at 2 hrs after high at the Battery. It appears to be 7 miles from Throgs to Hell. That would put me in Hell about 3 hrs after the high at the Battery? So I can expect 4 Kts in Hell?
 
#14 ·
I don't have anything constructive to add to this discussion, but I wanted to say that aside from the interesting timing and navigation challenges, this trip would seem to offer some incredible views of historic areas of New York.

I envy you, making the trip.
 
#16 ·
If you use Sunday June 23, 2013 as an example. ( full moon)

According to Eldridge

High Water at the Battery is listed as 8:38 a.m.

The Current in Hell Gate turns to the southwest @ 10:26 a.m Approximately 2 hours after the high water at the battery.

If you look at pages 128 thru 133 in eldrige they give you graphical diagrams of the current in 1 hour increments. Based on those diagrams @ 2 hours after high water at the battery, you'd already have 1.8 kn (sw). @ 3 hours after high tide at the battery you'd have 4 kn. (sw)

According to this current diagram slack is about 10:25 a.m:

Hell Gate (East River), New York Current

So, if you wanted to be at the gate At slack in the gate, you could leave the throgs neck about an hour after high tide at the battery. ( the current turns there 1 hour before the gate, so you'll get a push to cover the 7 miles.)

As you proceed down the river you could be catching up with the turns which occur later and not taking full advantage of the sleigh ride.

I believe, the 2 hour departure from throgs neck is designed to take full advantage of a favorable current and not neccesarily hit the gate at slack. ( I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong)

So, I believe it depends on what your goal is.

If you're destination is Liberty landing marina, you could hit the gate up to 4 or 5 hours after high tide at the battery and still get a favorable current. It's only a 2 hour trip with the current..and maybe another 1/2 hr to cross the hudson to the entrance to Liberty.

For those that are proceeding further south, the goal would be to hit the gate as early as possible to keep the favorable current down past the Verrazano narrows and beyond. On June 23rd, for instance, the flood at the narrows begins @ 4:34 p.m. You'd want to be through and past before that turn.

If you're heading up the hudson, you'd want hit the gate later to catch the flood up the hudson.

The last time through for me, I got to City island from port Jeff too early to head down river..so I took a leisurely siteseeing trip around Hart Island to kill some time. I didn't realize that it was the potters field for NYC and that the prisoners from Rikers are the burial detail.

I ending up hitting the gate at slack that day, I had never seen it so calm. But as Rich stated I encountered a Tug and a Barge that I slowed to let pass me earlier at the throgs neck, still turning in the gate. So I just backed down and let it clear.

Rich mentioned keeping and eye around corners. One of the spots to keep an eye in is the main channel around North Brother island. Most small craft will take the channel between the brother islands (at least, I do) . Once you emerge in either direction, you should look to see who might be coming around from the main channel.
 
#17 ·
Tempest is dead on. I avoid the Gate at slack as it can be full of tugs and barges. I prefer the sleigh ride in either direction. Going north I am usually on my way to Port Jefferson so I prefer a good push. Going south I am usually headed to either Atlantic Highlands or even Barnegat Bay on the Jersey Coast so I like the boost out thru NY Harbor.

We have made the run from Northport to Barnegat a few times.

Bubbles the scenery and sounds of the city are spectacular, We have albums of city shots of the Empire State, Statue of Liberty, Wall Street, South Street Seaport. The UN (disappointing).

The angst about Hell Gate is overblown IMHO. It is to be respected and you dont want to fight current, but the area leading into the East River and to the Manhattan bridges is way more nerve racking.
 
#23 ·
Chartplotter 11 knots SOG next to Roosevelt Island

Entrance to Hell gate (where Harlem and East River Combine) not so scarey looking. Lots of current, but very doable if you are taking it.

Looking back down the East River toward Battery before entering Hell Gate- look at water

Middle of Hell Gate looking back at the city

In Hell gate...no biggie
 
#25 ·
broke-
I was in that situation once. "If I get delayed and hit those 5 kts at the Gate, can I control the boat if my max hull speed is 7 kts? " Skipper was delayed at work, we missed the slack and spent a couple of hours in full racing trim making siz knots through the water and about 100 yards over ground.
So either you "heave to" that way, or you duck into one of the many amchorages shown on the charts, starting with Little Bay out under the Throgg's Neck Bridge. There are many places designated as anchorages in the far western sound, one purpose of them is as holding areas for traffic that need to time the HG. Most are usually near empty or empty, and if the chart says "Foul bottom" you may want to think twice before tossing an anchor into it.
The west channel of the East River is the primary one, the lower bridge clearance in the east channel is only 40' and they're not going to raise it for you unless the west channel is closed. There's some nonsense with hydrogenerators being tested in the west channel, if one is being pulled or lowered it might be closed, that should be scheduled ahead of time.

As for Hussar Gold...The Army undermined the entire HellGate area, blew up a couple of small islands that no longer exist, lowered the bed of the entire river about ten feet in that area. At the time it was the biggest explosion ever. Whatever might have been on the river bottom, it is unlikely anyone will ever find any trace of it. Folks go through HG today and wonder about the name. Well, it hasn't really been The Hell Gate in nearly 100 years now.

Back then, no ecological studies, no waffling around, just "Hey, we can fix this" and BOOM they did.
 
#26 ·
I have done hell gate. You want to be at the Battery at low tide with slack current if you are heading towards LI Sound. If you are leaving LI Sound for NY Harbor you want to be at the Throgsneck bridge one hour before highwater slack. If you follow these recommendations, you can do 14 over the ground.

Do not travel against the current, it is very dangerous-especially for an aux-powered sailboat.

Enjoy.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Eldrige is your friend.I have been going around Manhattan, from the Hudson R to New England and Nova Scotia every year for more than a decade. Look up the high and low water times at the Battery and then go to the pages that show the current, with speed arrows and numbers indexed back to the Battery times. Remember that the high and low water water times are not the same as the flood and ebb current times. Threw me for a loop the first time I rounded. I usually prefer the sleigh ride going through with current going with me. Have topped 14 kts SOG and it is fun going by the cars on the East River Drive when they are slowed to a crawl and you are speeding by, thinking back on all the times I was in their shoes. I have also gone through with the tide going against me and making all of 2 kts or so SOG.

Note that the times for ebb and flow on the East and Hudson Rivers differ. If you study Eldrige carefully, and time it just right, you can have fair current all the way around the Island. I also agree the the area under the bridges between Manhattan and Brooklyn is more of a "white knuckles" part of the trip than Hells Gate. Those ferries go like bats out of hell and the amount of traffic is unbelievable. Don't try it at night until you've done it a couple of times.
 
#28 ·
[/QUOTE]I also agree the the area under the bridges between Manhattan and Brooklyn is more of a "white knuckles" part of the trip than Hells Gate. Those ferries go like bats out of hell and the amount of traffic is unbelievable. Don't try it at night until you've done it a couple of times.[/QUOTE]

Have read and will follow all the good suggestions given so far. We are going to be transiting South this spring in our Dufour 31 w/ 8 horse power diesel. In other words, not a lot of extra power to horse her around all those ferries, especially going downstream.
So what are the practical protocols sailboats use to avoid close calls and T-bone crashes with larger cross river traffic when passing through here?
What are they expecting us to do, other than to stay the heck out of their way of course?
What's the best shore to keep to, if any?
We are headed to A/H, our new home port.
Thanks,
Talbot
 
#29 ·
Talbot,
No shore is any guarantee.
Just keep out of the way of the bigger guys out there.
Travel with the current which you can find in the Eldridge Tide & Pilot manual. Keep vhf radio on 16/13/11.
The UN Building is something to keep your distance from.
Go down the west side of of Roosevelt Island.
Keep a vigilant lookout.
Consider keeping the main sail only up as it may catch some favorable wind.
Make sure your engine is dependable.

If you catch the current right you can be in NY Harbor in < 2 hours from passing under the Throgg's Neck Bridge.
 
#30 · (Edited)
There are a lot of ferries darting every which way, especially at transit times but I've always found them to leave you plenty of room. The water taxi captains seem to be capable and courteous. Just know the rules of the road, keep to stb if possible to let commercial traffic by. Go with the flow! There are sometimes some standing waves by the Williamsburg Bridge that are fun to go through at 10 knots.:) There's a nice little anchorage behind the SOL to wait and you can wait on the Throgs side right across, just south of Kings Pt MM Academy. Download current charts for the area on the NOAA website:Current Station Locations and Ranges I find these current tables very helpful. They need no translation from TIDE table info. Eldridge has some very good graphic current/time images of NY Harbor.
 
#31 ·
Heading southbound, once we clear Roosevelt Island we stay down the East side of the East River. That keeps you out of the way of most of the ferries, the seaplanes, the Staten Island ferry terminal.

Its an amazing ride so take your camera.
 
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