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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Can someone explain roach to me?
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Thread: Can someone explain roach to me? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-30-2013 03:47 AM
SchockT
Re: Can someone explain roach to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knuterikt View Post
What do you call this? Furling main with roach
I'm no big fan of furling mains but that problem has a solution.


Do some of those battens go right from the boom to the leech? It looks like the ones in the HR pic does! That must be $1000 worth of battens! And what happens if your furling fails and you have to take the main down the old fashioned way? Battens that long would be pretty awkward. It seems like with the increased risk of the battens fouling inside the mast, and the disturbance the batten pockets cause to flow across the sail the benefit of the little bit of roach it gives you is hardly worth it.
01-29-2013 11:16 PM
Brent Swain
Re: Can someone explain roach to me?

John Lecher , author of the self steering book and an aircraft engineer, said without full length battens a roach increases the performance of a mainsail from zero to three percent, but is responsible for 80% of sail repairs.
01-29-2013 10:32 PM
Stumble
Re: Can someone explain roach to me?

Med,

A longer boom does two things. One helpful, one harmful.

First it increases sail area, this is good.

Second it reduces aspect ratio, this is bad.

A good designer must balance these things out when designing the rig. As well as a lot of other stuff like: running backs instead of a backstay, mast weight, mast taper, expected loads, boom length and traveler placement, ect...
01-29-2013 05:32 PM
MedSailor
Re: Can someone explain roach to me?

The other solution to battens and mainsail furling is in-boom furling and horizontal battens.

I appreciate all the explanations so far about roachy heads of mainsails. Now what about further down? Seems like if we wanted more sail area down low, we'd all have longer booms right?

I'm thinking that there may be wisdom to the "first 2 battens full" and the rest partial, for a cruising main.

MedSailor
01-29-2013 02:49 PM
knuterikt
Re: Can someone explain roach to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Yes, I should have noted that, and it's probably a decent solution, given that H-R is now using it... One major advantage I can envision, seems it would allow a main of even greater roach to clear a backstay when tacking, than a sail with horizontal battens...



Still an extremely rare setup on this side of the Atlantic, however - I don't think I've ever actually seen vertical battens on a cruising boat yet over here... Do you know whether such battened mains can be retro-fitted to most existing rigs, or do they require a purpose-built spar with a wider slot? Some of the Hood Stowaway masts I've used, I can't imagine the slot being able to accommodate the additional bulk of battens, without a major modification...
The boat in the picture is a standard Bavaria 32 with furling mast.
I'm going to my sail maker soon - will try to remember asking him what the limitation's are
Here is a translation of what one owner wrote
Quote:
We were class winner in Færdern (One of the largest over night races in the world) and No. 2 over-all of all boats rounding at Mefjord!
So it seem's like Bavaria + Gran furling main is not so bad!
We received many comments during the ceremony, how can that be possible? What have you done with the boat? It is not possible to win with Bavaria, short keel and furling main when 90% of the race is tacking!
My only comment was: Talk with Henning at Gran if you are wondering what is possible.
Bavaria 32 Owner
01-29-2013 02:33 PM
Sabreman
Re: Can someone explain roach to me?

Quote:
I don't think I've ever actually seen vertical battens on a cruising boat yet over here
I saw them last year on a sail at the Easton, MD Evolution loft. It's not a great solution because it's very difficult to control the shape of the sail with vertical battens. As with anything, it's a compromise. Proper shape vs. the ease of in mast furling. IMO, it's a sailboat, so I opt for shape.
01-29-2013 02:16 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Can someone explain roach to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knuterikt View Post
What do you call this? Furling main with roach
I'm no big fan of furling mains but that problem has a solution.


Yes, I should have noted that, and it's probably a decent solution, given that H-R is now using it... One major advantage I can envision, seems it would allow a main of even greater roach to clear a backstay when tacking, than a sail with horizontal battens...



Still an extremely rare setup on this side of the Atlantic, however - I don't think I've ever actually seen vertical battens on a cruising boat yet over here... Do you know whether such battened mains can be retro-fitted to most existing rigs, or do they require a purpose-built spar with a wider slot? Some of the Hood Stowaway masts I've used, I can't imagine the slot being able to accommodate the additional bulk of battens, without a major modification...
01-29-2013 02:14 PM
SVTatia
Re: Can someone explain roach to me?

IMHO the purpose of roach is to make you spend lots of money on battens, cars, chafe protection and sailmaker repairs.

My mainsail was straight cut, no roach no battens no problems, ever - after 50K sea miles. The only drawback - I may have arrived perhaps a few hours later?

Another plus – a big one – you can reef on any point of sail.
01-29-2013 02:01 PM
knuterikt
Re: Can someone explain roach to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
I agree wholeheartedly, but I must confess - I'm a bit surprised to hear a guy as 'racy' as you are, admit to that... (grin)

The resultant loss of roach area is one of the biggest downsides of in-mast furling on a cruising boat, for me...
What do you call this? Furling main with roach
I'm no big fan of furling mains but that problem has a solution.


01-29-2013 12:49 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Can someone explain roach to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post

I would suggest that where practical, maximizing roach may actually make more sense on most cruising boats than race boats.

Jeff
I agree wholeheartedly, but I must confess - I'm a bit surprised to hear a guy as 'racy' as you are, admit to that... (grin)

The resultant loss of roach area is one of the biggest downsides of in-mast furling on a cruising boat, for me...
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