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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-13-2013 01:46 AM
overbored
Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail

From a couple of big name web sites if you want to learn about the code 0 sail and how it is designed to be a light wind, up wind to close reacher and not a down wind sail on a displacement hull . my code 0 is a 300% sail and I would like to see someone use that downwind on a displacement hull. volvo 70's are not displacement hulls so the sail choices are a bit different then most older boats.
when a Volvo 70 is reaching there speed through the water is sometimes greater then the wind speed which makes the apparent wind angle clock around to where they are sailing at angles of less then 90 degrees and still sailing down wind.
Code Zero - UK-Halsey Sailmakers
North Sails: Code 0 (A0) Aysmmetric Spinnakers
02-13-2013 01:35 AM
blt2ski
Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail

I have a 130 drifter, made from 3oz nylon spin cloth, works quite well for days under 5-6 knots or so. For my 30' boat it was around $900 or so. much less than a code 0 or equal freeflying headsail. Altho smaller I admit.......but probably easier to use frankly! I then go to my 155 when above 5-6 knots with gust into the 7-8 range, I can use the 155 up to about 15-18 true depending upon wind temps of all things. Warmer days to 18, colder winter days in the 40's and 50F temps up to about 14-15 mph.

Marty
02-13-2013 01:15 AM
JonEisberg
Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg
If a "true" Code 0 is only to be used upwind in less than 7 knots, I guess the Volvo boats are no longer using Code 0s, 'cause they sure don't see much of those conditions during the race... (grin)
You're looking at this the wrong way.

Top teams carry certain sails on board for the conditions they expect to see ON THAT LEG. A Volvo 70 used to have 36 sails in their inventory and would race with half that. In 2011-12 they had 'only' 24 sails to choose from and could bring with them 10 sails. In the 2014-15 race it looks like they'll only carry 7 for the Volvo OD boats. This is to keep cost down.

Also there are cross over charts indicate what sails should be flown in what configuation given a wind speed and angle. A MH0 (masthead code 0) can go upwind in lets say 10 kts true (speculation). Then it needs to be changed for something smaller like a FH0(fractional code 0). However, if you crack off to 65* true, the MH0 can still be used up to (lets say) 13 knots. It continues to 85* in 16 kts.

...

Point is, they need to pic sails which give the best average performance in addition to complying with the rules. Not saying Code 0s are bad, obviously they work, but sometimes its just the "best sail they have at the time" There's a good article here: VO70 Downwind Sails | BLUR
Some teams realized that with only bringing 7-10 sails on board for a leg, picking the "winners" before you leave the dock may determine who wins, and who comes in 3rd.
Well, at least I'd say I got the part about confusion over nomenclature regarding Code 0s right... In the space of a few posts, we've gone from the assertion that...

Quote:
...they have a very limited points of sail and are not good for a beam or wider reach... a true code 0 is a upwind sail for very light winds under 7 knots.
...to your cite that says...

Quote:

VO70 Downwind Sails

The Volvo Ocean Race have always been on the cutting edge of downwind sail development, and we’ve seen many innovations trickle down to club racers and cruising boats.

The Code 0 might be one of the best examples...
Hmmm, for a sail that purportedly has such a narrow range of use, to be characterized simultaneously as both an Upwind, and a Downwind sail is still pretty damn impressive... (grin)
02-13-2013 12:47 AM
PaulinVictoria
Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail

Go for it, I would
02-13-2013 12:34 AM
lr172
Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I'll look more closely at the Code 0's and do some more research here.

To those that suggested the 170 is optimal here, I will test it this spring. My crew is pretty limited in experience and I was hoping to avoid the task of taking down the 150 to install the 170 on the furler each time there is limited wind. Do you folks think that I can fly that sail free? How can I determine if that sail will support that? My research seemed to indicated that it was a jib, like the others, and required attachment to the forespar.

Larry
02-12-2013 09:00 PM
zz4gta
Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
If a "true" Code 0 is only to be used upwind in less than 7 knots, I guess the Volvo boats are no longer using Code 0s, 'cause they sure don't see much of those conditions during the race... (grin)
You're looking at this the wrong way.

Top teams carry certain sails on board for the conditions they expect to see ON THAT LEG. A Volvo 70 used to have 36 sails in their inventory and would race with half that. In 2011-12 they had 'only' 24 sails to choose from and could bring with them 10 sails. In the 2014-15 race it looks like they'll only carry 7 for the Volvo OD boats. This is to keep cost down.

Also there are cross over charts indicate what sails should be flown in what configuation given a wind speed and angle. A MH0 (masthead code 0) can go upwind in lets say 10 kts true (speculation). Then it needs to be changed for something smaller like a FH0(fractional code 0). However, if you crack off to 65* true, the MH0 can still be used up to (lets say) 13 knots. It continues to 85* in 16 kts. Here are some sail crossover charts:
Click on 'next' to look at another chart
SailingPerformance - CrossoverChart





Point is, they need to pic sails which give the best average performance in addition to complying with the rules. Not saying Code 0s are bad, obviously they work, but sometimes its just the "best sail they have at the time" There's a good article here: VO70 Downwind Sails | BLUR
Some teams realized that with only bringing 7-10 sails on board for a leg, picking the "winners" before you leave the dock may determine who wins, and who comes in 3rd.
02-12-2013 08:40 PM
GeorgeB
Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail



North Sail's nomenclature is very simple: A= Asymmetric construction, S= Symmetric Spinnakers, G= Gennaker, which is their trademarked name for an asymmetric sail with less girth, and C= Coded sails. North’s three coded sails are numbered “0”, “1”, and “2”. The Codes have (or at least did) wire luffs and differ from the Asymmetics and Gennakers in I girth. They are designed to have sufficient halyard tension in order to present a straight luff.

I sail a G2 Gennaker and am able to carry it in a little higher winds than the polars and up to a beam reach in lighter breezes. I almost pulled the trigger on a Code 0 this past weekend as I too, was looking for a little more upwind capability. Unfortunately I couldn’t justify the price as it would only be used a few times a year. (San Francisco’s problem is usually too much wind, not too little.)
02-12-2013 07:14 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailortjk1 View Post
Where do you guys Tack your code O? A Hunter 34 I would think would need some modifications even possibly one of those snubby sprits to attach the tack line.

I was able to attach a block right to my anchor roller for the tack line of our Asymmetrical. Very little extra work involved.
I tack mine to the stem fitting, a few inches behind the headstay... Not optimal, but there's no other good solution on my boat, and it works fine...

I'd be very wary of flying one off a deck-mounted sprit... Most of those are fine for an asymetrical, but a Code 0 can generate some very impressive loads, far higher than asymetricals flown at deeper angles. In addition, the bow pulpits on most American boats will interfere with the fair lead of the taut luff from an anchor roller to the masthead, on anything less than a fairly long sprit. Flying a Code 0 from anything other than a purpose-built sprit, constructed integral to the hull or deck, can be risky...

Quote:
Originally Posted by overbored View Post
seem that you already have the sail you are looking for. try the 170. if not a gennaker is a good sail for a cruising boat. a code 0 is a bit much to handle unless it is on a furler. they are designed to be used on a race boat that is rated for a fractional jib to be called a spinnaker for rules sake but can go up wind. they have a very limited points of sail and are not good for a beam or wider reach. a beam or wider you should be using an Asymmetrical spinnaker. or gennaker code 0 sails are very expensive $ 3500 to 4000 for your boat. a code 0 sail that is cut higher at the clew and fuller is not a code 0 it is a gennaker made out of expensive code cloth. a true code 0 is a upwind sail for very light winds under 7 knots.
There continues to be a lot of confusion regarding the nomenclature pertaining to these sails, and it has evolved to a certain extent since they were first introduced in the '97-98 Whitbread. North Sails, for example, would definitely not agree with your last statement...

The earliest Code 0 sails did have higher clews than many today, and North would still call my sail by that name... Personally, I find mine to be of far greater utility than even the sailmaker describes, it's a great reaching sail, and I've even flown it to very good effect almost DDW, wing on wing with a poled-out genoa... If a "true" Code 0 is only to be used upwind in less than 7 knots, I guess the Volvo boats are no longer using Code 0s, 'cause they sure don't see much of those conditions during the race... (grin)

Quote:

In the opening leg of the 1997-98 Whitbread Around the World Race EF Language unveiled a “secret weapon.” It was a new close-reaching asymmetric developed by North sail designers dubbed the “Code Zero,” and it vaulted EFL to an early lead the team would never relinquish. A decade later, North “Code Zero” (A0) asymmetrics are versatile members of mainstream inventories... not only used by boats that spend a lot of time close reaching in light air, but also in windier conditions and wider angles.

What they do

Code Zero asymmetrics fit effectively into the crossover gap between a genoa and the ubiquitous 3A asymmetric reacher. They provide additional power at approx. 40-degrees AWA in true wind speeds under 10 knots; conditions that are typically slow with conventional sails. Code Zeros have also proved effective for reaching in 15-25 knot winds at 80 to 90 degree apparent wind angles. Most boats sailing offshore can put a Code Zero to good use.

North Sails: Code 0 (A0) Aysmmetric Spinnakers

02-12-2013 05:06 PM
knuterikt
Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
I think the Code 0 is good advice to your question, but since you are looking for power and getting a new sail anyway, I'd encourage you to add a sprit to fly the code 0. That would allow you to increase the sail area quite a bit.
As several sailmakers for a quote for a Code 0 with furler, lots of different furlers to chose from and some sail makers make "bundles" that is better priced than buying separately.

"My" sailmaker (the one in PCP's post) is one of those with "bundle prices"

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
it seems that what you need is a code 0. A kind of geenaker but with the shape of a huge genoa. With that one you can go upwind at 50º or so and it will work till you can use the spinnaker.
02-12-2013 03:49 PM
sailingfool
Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail

I think the Code 0 is good advice to your question, but since you are looking for power and getting a new sail anyway, I'd encourage you to add a sprit to fly the code 0. That would allow you to increase the sail area quite a bit.
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