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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-18-2013 02:59 PM
LauderBoy
Re: Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by glassdad View Post
LaunderBoy: The weight of the battery pack will be quite high compared to the fuel.
You're not just replacing the fuel tank and fuel, but also the heavy engine. In the installs people are doing the weight comes out to the same or less and the balance is fine since it's easier to load the batteries lower.

Weight/reliability/long term cost isn't the issue, it's really endurance that kills it as an option for most cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirRedemption View Post
Really depends on the type of cruising one does. I have to cross through the Los Angeles shipping lanes just to leave the break and get out into open water. Not only do shipping boats pass through there but also the Navy, commercial fishing and VERY large cruise ships so not having the umph on demand really isnt an option for me.
Yeah, based on that I wouldn't go electric. A petrol will give you a lot more power/duration for getting through that mess and the last thing you want to have to worry about is whether or not bumping from 4 up to 6 knots speed will kill your fuel source too quickly to get you through to safe water.
02-17-2013 05:47 PM
mad_machine
Re: Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel

I am looking into Diesel Electric Hybrids for my eventual cruiser/liveaboard due to the simplification of systems. Why would I want a diesel engine AND a diesel generator when one system can provide both and do so for less fuel?

It may not be feasible to some on an old boat.. but then, I am not looking to buy and cash out in a year or two. I am thinking long term ownership.
02-17-2013 06:05 AM
SirRedemption
Re: Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Unfortunately hybrid just isn't ready for long term cruising yet, and simply isn't cost effective (certainly not on a 1969 boat).
What exactly in your mind makes you feel that there is any difference in the cost effectiveness in a 1968 vs a 2013 model sailboat? If that is based on precieved value then I will have to argue that point.

I have worked on newer model boats and I have to say for the most part I wouldnt trust my life to one. Most of the newer model vessels are laid up thinner than should be legal. That is my first hand experience.

If I won the lottery tomorrow and became filthy rich I wouldnt buy a new yacht. I would but a 60's era 38 footer and have it redone from the ground up. Out on the ocean where you gotta your equipment with your life I want something laid up nice and thick. like a floating tank
02-17-2013 05:58 AM
SirRedemption
Re: Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel

Really depends on the type of cruising one does. I have to cross through the Los Angeles shipping lanes just to leave the break and get out into open water. Not only do shipping boats pass through there but also the Navy, commercial fishing and VERY large cruise ships so not having the umph on demand really isnt an option for me.

As for costs. There is a lot of difference of opinion on how long the batteries will last and vary on the extreme in both directions. That time stamp means nothing until someone who has one set up and has been using it for 5 years or more can tell me really how often they have to change the batteries.

Lots of factors there.

-are you charging under load
-how quickly are you charging the batteries
-how far down do you let the batteries get before you start charging them
-type of batteries
-size of volt and amp draw from electric motor
-how often does the boat sit without "exercising" the battery bank

All these things can drastically affect the lifespan of a battery bank. Price will vary drastically depending on the type. The type will also determine a whole slurry of factors in distance, charge time, cost, etc etc

Fossil fuels are easier to understand in this sense but also. I unfortunately have large gaps of time between operation on my boat. Primarily because I live 60 miles inland from my slip which we all know isnt amazing for Atomic 4 engines. Diesel especially are not fond of not being ran regularly

Chances are I will sort out my engine problems and milk a couple more seasons out of the powerplant while I get the rest of the boat up to the level I want it at. Hopefully by the time my atomic has had enough I will be ready to rebuild or replace
02-16-2013 04:58 PM
msmith10
Re: Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel

If your goal is to sail/cruise, not spend a fortune or build a floating technology lab, why not just replace or rebuild the A4? You can probably put a rebuilt A4 in for less than 1/2 the price of a diesel, and a swap-out is a DIY job. You will never come close to recouping the cost of a new diesel.
02-16-2013 03:10 PM
glassdad
Re: Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel

LaunderBoy: The weight of the battery pack will be quite high compared to the fuel. The weight needs to be carfully balanced so as to not change the sailing balance., Also, where are you going to store the battery? It will take some serious work to build a battery compartment to store and contain the battery.
02-15-2013 04:32 PM
LauderBoy
Re: Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel

Initial cost is absolutely higher. Especially if you can re-power with a rebuilt Yanmar and run a DIY install on that. On the battery costs, you're leaving out diesel maintenance. It's not just fuel expense there. Diesel engine service 3 years back was $450 for me and my last one was a nice $700 day job.

As for "needs of a cruiser", you can't speak for all cruisers in that. It's obviously meeting the needs of the owner of Bianka.
02-15-2013 04:19 PM
chucklesR
Re: Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel

Lauderboy,

Not to shoot the messenger, but I call foul.
The Thoosa 9000 is 7,790 bucks
The 4 8d Agm's he has to power it (for 48v A 200 ah) are 500 bucks each.
That's 10 grand with DIY installation.
That doesn't even include the charging system, another grand for the Honda.

All that for 4 hours of motor time?
No comparison, and doesn't meet the needs of a cruiser.

It's not even cost effective to operate, he'll need to replace that 2000 dollar bank long before I've spent 2k in fuel.
02-15-2013 04:01 PM
LauderBoy
Re: Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel

@glassdad The weight you get from the engine plus fuel tank is what's replaced by the electric engine and batteries. A Thoosa 9000 weighs about 45lbs, so it's really just battery weight.

@tommays The system is far less complex than you're making it out to be. After 5 years of use, here's the first real maintenance that one owner has had to do: THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: EASY ELECTRIC BOAT MAINTENANCE PART ONE: REMOVING THE MOTOR

From his blog, his Honda generator has been more maintenance than anything else.
02-15-2013 03:35 PM
tommays
Re: Electric hybrid Inboard Vs Diesel

I have a fleet of state of the art 48 volt (which means the batteries are inverted to produce AC for the drive motor) standup reach trucks and if you think that’s NOT the most complex thing on the planet I do not know what to say ?

Other than that are propane units have far lower care requirements needs and you have not spent much time keeping doing the care required to keep heavily used battery’s alive

My A4 is a good bit simpler than my riding lawn mower and if you can’t keep one running your surly going to have difficulty keeping up with a complex electric system in saltwater

End of ramble
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