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Ideas and/or guidance

3K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  strandedsooner 
#1 ·
Let me first say that I love this site and have spent more hours than I would like to admit gathering lots of great information. I am on my second boat and sail on a small reservoir in Kansas. I also have taken ASA courses and did a bareboat charter in the BVI a couple years ago and am planning another week in April 2013. The cruising bug has bit...HARD. However, I am 38 and have 2 kids so I need to work. I also don't really want to take a sabbatical for a cruise (although I may reconsider this as an option later if my other thought isn't possible).

I am a physician and can potentially change my practice and have 20 weeks off. I am looking to find a situation where I can cruise approx four months of the year and work the rest with a couple weeks of vacation in reserve. I also then could have the boat in charter with a good outfit on the east coast somewhere the rest of the year. That way someone is keeping up on the maintenance and it would help defray the costs. The thoughts of doing the Caribbean 1500 every year and cruising the eastern caribbean are appealing except we would be gone during the holiday season and that is the busiest time of the year in my practice. It would be an easier sell to my colleagues if I was gone January-April when it's not as busy.

Any Caribbean based boat would lose valuable "High" season charter time if I was using it during that time. So I'm not sure that is the best option. I'm thinking that a Florida based boat might be the best option? With the Bahamas nearby and potentially the eastern caribbean if the "thorny path" was taken. Also just cruising the ICW and Florida seems interesting. Another thought would be to have a southern california based boat and cruise Mexico during that time. However I know the baja haha fleet leaves at the end of October so I don't know how feasible it is to go to mexico from california in January. Both the Florida and Socal/Mexico options would leave summer/fall charter revenue streams intact.

I guess I would just love some feedback on this idea or any other ideas that might make sense given this time window Jan-April and the possibility of charter income the rest of the year. Respected charter company information would also be great. I should also mention that I would have to get a loan on the boat so any other information about how that could potentially change plans as far as insurance companies are concerned, etc. would be appreciated.

If you are still reading this I appreciate your persistence on such a long winded post and thank you so much for any ideas or information. :)

Eric
 
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#2 ·
Eric,

I am 41, have two kids (9 &12), live aboard and cruise. We have been doing this on and off since about 2000. Honestly, we know little other than this life. That being said, here are my opinions:

First, I would probably not do the charter business. My opinion, but I see those boats pushed hard. If you are going to try and make this work for you and your family, especially as a 4 month/year liveaboard, then set the boat up as you like it and make it your second home. Since you are taking a loan out, you will be able to write off the interest on it anyways. While you are not on the boat, just put it on the hard. However, you might also condier leaving it in the wate for long weekends/vacation time outside of your norm??

Location? Boy, the Carribean would sure be tempting. However, your costs are going to go up a lot on everything, from outfitting, slippage, insurance (which you will have to have), etc. Our insurance for 225k policy is 2800/year which includes all the gulf, bahamas, and all of the east coast. Our last quote to head to the carribean was 4800 I think.

I would conisder keeping the boat in the St Pete area. There are lots of yards, not much of a winter (which prevents having to winterize), and lots of areas to cruise. You can head to Pensacolla which has beautiful hills and blue water for the end of spring, or sail down to the TOrtugas to what is I think the most beautiful area in the US, or spend some time in the keys snorkelling off the back of your boat, or jump to the Bahamas for an even more exciting adventure. I am not knocking the Carrib, but I would personally start here (and did start on the West Coast of FL). The west coast of Fl has a lot to offer for anchorages, nice people, and reasonable rates (for FL).

Happy to answer any other questions.

Take care,

Brian
 
#4 ·
First, I would probably not do the charter business. My opinion, but I see those boats pushed hard.
Could not agree more. My wife and I chartered boats world wide for a good 15 years. While we were careful with the charter boats we saw so much abuse by others towards the boats that I would never EVER put a boat in charter. The tax laws have changed so much to the disadvantage of the charter boat owner, not worth it. My CPA said I would certainly be a huge target for the IRS if I tried any "business" write-offs on the charter boat. Just not worth it in many regards.

Location? Boy, the Carribean would sure be tempting. However, your costs are going to go up a lot on everything, from outfitting, slippage, insurance (which you will have to have), etc. Our insurance for 225k policy is 2800/year which includes all the gulf, bahamas, and all of the east coast. Our last quote to head to the carribean was 4800 I think.
Caribbean, $4800, ouch, I had no idea it was so expensive for insurance while operating down there, crazy! Dang!
 
#3 · (Edited)
As to California, the reason the haha leaves in November is that's the end of the hurricane season in Mexico. IIRC, it starts up again around June, so your January to April time frame would work out well there. Then the rest of the year it could be chartered in California, north of the hurricane issues.

Also, I agree with Cruising Dad, seriously look at whether or not you could do this without chartering the boat out. Living on the boat 4 months a year, your going to want to be able to do little customizations to make you life easier which might not work so well on a chartered boat, and having lots of your own stuff on board all the time will make it feel more like home and less like a hotel. Not that it couldn't be done, perhaps this is the right choice for you and I'm sure others do it this way and love it, but for me I would rather buy a cheaper boat that could be all mine then a nicer boat I have to share :)

As to which is better, California or Florida, I have sailed neither yet, but Florida / Bahamas would be awfully tempting. It may also be possible to start on the east coast, then in a few years truck it to the west coast for a change of pace. (I guess that might depend on the size of the boat.) Seems like if you sailed to Texas one year and had it trucked over to the sea of Cortez, it might not be too outrageous of a price, but again, I am talking about something I know nothing about! :)
 
#12 ·
As to California, the reason the haha leaves in November is that's the end of the hurricane season in Mexico. IIRC, it starts up again around June, so your January to April time frame would work out well there. Then the rest of the year it could be chartered in California, north of the hurricane issues.
Ive always wanted to do the haha but I just lack the funds for a trip that will require me to be gone for so long an motor so far back to my slip.

I agree about chartering. Very difficult to get it to not run in the red. The amount of regulatory red tape you will have to deal with is staggering.

On that note though there has been an ad running in CL that you might find relevant Boat Charter Business for sale.

Supposedly that is the boat from the movie Captain Ron. One of my favorites. Ive been watching his ad on and off for over a year now. Might be worth looking in to if your set on that course of action
 
#5 ·
That would be a great opportunity to have. Personally, I'd save, save, save until I could buy a boat for cash, spend 4 months/year on it, and keep it on the hard the remainder of the year.

As for location, I'd probably do Florida for reasons mentioned above. It might be worth checking out some options in Puerto Rico. We've stayed in and sailed from Fajardo. San Juan was sorta sketchy, but Fajardo and the nearby islands are amazing.
 
#6 ·
Could you move closer to the water? If you lived and worked in Virginia, Florida, Washington, Great Lakes region; you could sail weekends, beer can races, and vacation cruises. One of the best things about sailing is puttering around on the boat. If the boat is a plane ride away, you'll not have that aspect.

I was "trapped" in Kansas for a while for professional reasons. Scrached my sailing itch with a few offshore races and chartering until I could back near the water.
 
#8 ·
Eric, in your situation I might look for a partner with complementary flexibility in their annual schedule. Or, you might find someone willing to 'share' his/her boat on a non-equity basis. I keep an eye on on Craigslist for these kind of options - and what I see runs the gamut from a 16' Hobie Cat in Lincoln, Nebraska to something as nice as a newer Freedom 36' based at the San Francisco Yacht Club in Tiburon. In some cases, a person advertises for partners intending to decide together on what to buy.

Yes, there are all kinds of potential problems involved with partnerships. But the same is true of putting one's boat in charter service. Plus, you might find yourself in a more interesting boat that you can tailor a bit to your own preferences, rather than buying what is popular for charters - like a Jeanneateau with a roller furling main. (Hey, I lease-shared a Jeanneau 40 for a season and it was an enjoyable boat, but if it were my money I'd go for something like a Tartan.)
 
#9 ·
Thanks for all the responses they are greatly appreciated. It sounds like almost everyone says to avoid chartering if possible which seems reasonable. Might be better to go smaller/older on the boat to keep the price down. Then I can just keep it on the hard the rest of the time. The place I did my sailing courses (San Diego Sailing Academy) might be the one place I would trust a boat to charter. Those guys kept those boats looking awesome and took care of the little things that invariably pop up on a boat. However you are still at the mercy of the charterers in the end.

I'm thinking I need to get hard numbers on the associated costs of insurance, dry storage, etc for various locations and then see what makes the most sense. If I'm not going to charter the boat then I could check into keeping the boat in the Caribbean somewhere and then just fly in/fly out. I met a cool group on my last trip to the BVI that were doing a circumnavigation in stages that way. They would cruise and do a leg then leave the boat on the hard until they had more time. That was at Virgin Gorda Yacht Harbour so I'll check into some arrangements like that. However, I also loved sailing in Florida when we picked up our Seaward a couple years ago so that would be an awesome option and probably half the cost.

As to johnnyquest37 question about could I move somewhere closer to the water, that is definitely something that I have seriously considered. I actually just turned down a coastal position for numerous reasons. The thing about my current position is I could take more time off for the same amount of $$$. Unfortunately physicians get paid less in prime coastal areas. Not to mention my cost of living in Kansas is super cheap in comparison to California, Washington, Florida, and some other places I've checked out. This plan seems to make the most sense to me. As far as boat projects and the "putter" factor I still will have my 26rk to mess around on when I'm back in the mud puddle.

Thanks again for all the responses and keep them coming. Be brutally honest too if there is something really stupid about this idea also. I have thick skin :D

Eric
 
#10 ·
sparrowe,

Thats an intriguing thought about the co-ownership possibility. That could actually be perfect in the right setting with the right partner/s. Thanks for that input. I'll check out craigslist. Maybe even Latitude 38 or other similar magazine might have something as well.
 
#13 ·
Eric,

Kansas is much too far from real water, No doubt!

Here is a suggestion that would make sailing in spectacular places easily accomplished given your family and employment situation. Consider New England. The Carib is just a nice cruise away or a flight to charter anywhere you choose for a couple of weeks. That would be very possible during winter months when your boat is safe on the hard. Great cruising grounds, excellent cruising weather (not life threatening sunshine every day but fair winds and plenty of places to hide if necessary), a maritime culture with lots of possibilities for where you locate. Cities like Boston or Portland, (my Maine bias) are full of life and opportunities. The inland country is varied and spectacular. Mountains, rivers, lakes, wildlife,......Great hospitals and schools. Small towns too. My GP built his own 34' aluminum ketch here in Bar Harbor. Sailing? Sailing is done all day, every day from May to October. The Maritimes offer Canada's hospitality for summer cruising. The Maine coast could take you the rest of your life to explore and if racing is on your mind, that too.

I'm just saying! It is our little secret :D

Down
 
#14 · (Edited)
Eric,

Kansas is much too far from real water, No doubt!

Here is a suggestion that would make sailing in spectacular places easily accomplished given your family and employment situation. Consider New England. The Carib is just a nice cruise away or a flight to charter anywhere you choose for a couple of weeks. That would be very possible during winter months when your boat is safe on the hard. Great cruising grounds, excellent cruising weather (not life threatening sunshine every day but fair winds and plenty of places to hide if necessary), a maritime culture with lots of possibilities for where you locate. Cities like Boston or Portland, (my Maine bias) are full of life and opportunities. The inland country is varied and spectacular. Mountains, rivers, lakes, wildlife,......Great hospitals and schools. Small towns too. My GP built his own 34' aluminum ketch here in Bar Harbor. Sailing? Sailing is done all day, every day from May to October. The Maritimes offer Canada's hospitality for summer cruising. The Maine coast could take you the rest of your life to explore and if racing is on your mind, that too.

I'm just saying! It is our little secret :D

Down
I vote SOUTH! Go to the warmth. Avoid snow, driving cold rain, and endless dark days at all costs. This is a no brainier. AS much as I respect Downeast450's opinions, I would just leave this one on his doorstep with a "not interested" sign. :)
 
#17 ·
Eric,
Here's my $0.02 worth coming from the husband of a physician who knows how you medical types have difficulty unplugging for any significant amount of time (have you actually tried leaving your practice for 4 months at a stretch?) :cool: Just knowing my wife and her fellow docs that love sailing and how they all tend to drift back to patients, patient care, skills that they worry are getting rusty, CME, whatever, something ALWAYS seem to pull their thoughts from cruising to medicine after a week or three. Ever been in an anchorage with more than one doc sitting in the cockpit after dinner? Guarantee that talk will find its way to medicine! :cool:

Your a doc. Either buy a boat and park it on the coast where you want to sail to and from, what CruisingDad suggests is very sound advice, or move to a coast. Yes cost of living goes up near the coast but so does income. A good, solid, coastal cruiser does not have to cost an arm and leg, you can get a nice family boat for under $100k ready to go. St. Pete and the entire Gulf Coast of Florida is reasonably priced for storage and offers great sailing. January/February in the panhandle is cold but you can easily head south to the keys and the Bahamas. Last summer I took a leisurely two weeks to go from St. Pete around the keys and over to Bimini, lots of fun!

So, if we were hanging out at the dock having this discussion I would offer you this advice. 1) if you can't move to a coast, keep a boat someplace you want to sail in the U.S where you are familiar with laws and customs and that part of the equation is easy to work through. 2) Choose a "boat home" someplace easy to commute to and from. (St. Pete fits the bill nicely with TPA close by) since you will likely have the long weekend when you will want to go sail occasionally. 3) I would avoid the charter idea as it would be running a business, hard on our boat, and charter companies may not take you on with your schedule requirements. 4) Have fun and enjoy sailing with your family! Nothing better in my book than time onboard with our kids. 5) Wherever you keep your boat does not have to be a lifelong commitment. You can do a year in Florida, a year on the Chesapeake, a year in the BVIs, etc. It's a boat, move it around and put some water under its keel!

Best wishes and et us know what you decide to do. We have many medical friends that are as addicted to sailing as us, it is doable.
 
#20 ·
Eric,
From Kansas you should really look at Great Lakes sailing. Travel there will be greatly simpified. I've been supscribing to "Good Old Boat" for a while and they (the editors) are Great Lakes sailors. Their season is just about four months, locales are spectacular, weather pleasantly cool in the summer (they seem to think 85 degrees is a broiler) and sailing grounds unlimited, especially for someone with four full months to sail.

You could then augment your summer sails with a charter in the tropics, and do you have ice boats in Kansas?

I'll bet that if you contacted Karen Larsen and Jerry Powlas at good old boat they would give you a very picture of what to expect.
John
 
#21 ·
Well I am very intrigued by the idea of having a boat in Florida that I put on the hard in between cruises. I am also going to explore having a charter boat somewhere in the Carib and try to do a couple multiple week cruises a year. I know the wear and tear factor might be high but it still appeals to me. I could spend longer and longer periods of time cruising and make sure its the right fit and have the boat already in prime cruising grounds. Also would have 4 or so years to save up even more money for a more extended cruise. Then would have a boat I could take to Florida for a refit and then cruise or sell and find a diff boat .

I am setting up a bareboat cruise for the BVI in April right now and possibly one in either Florida in June or San Juans in WA for August. Also going to try to do some overnights on the hook this summer on my boat in Kansas. I've got a little money saved and will definitely be doing something either buying a second boat for FL or a BVI charter boat in the next year.

On another note...Does anyone know anything about MarineMax vacations charters on Tortola? Their Dufour yachts look very nice and I have seen some good online reviews. Curious if anyone knows anything about them or the Dufour grand large yachts they charter.

Thanks again for all the great responses,

Eric
 
#22 ·
On another note...Does anyone know anything about MarineMax vacations charters on Tortola? Their Dufour yachts look very nice and I have seen some good online reviews. Curious if anyone knows anything about them or the Dufour grand large yachts they charter.

Thanks again for all the great responses,

Eric
Oddly enough I have never heard of MarineMax charters in the BVI. I have chartered there five times. Are they new? I would have remembered their boat logo's if I had ever seen them before. Very distinctive.

There are a pile of charter companies to choose from, make sure you shop. I love Conch Charters but many folks don't like them because the boats are a tad older. I always bring my own roll of duct tape:) Good folks own and run the place and their prices can't be beat. Opinions on charter companies are quite varied and vast and there is a surprising level of passion from people for their favorite operations.

Sounds like you have a beginning of a plan, good for you!
 
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