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Big Freakin' Sails

593K views 3K replies 293 participants last post by  smackdaddy 
#1 ·
Okay - this thread is for people that ACTUALLY LIKE Big Freakin' Sails (note for morons: the verb, not the noun). BFS simply means sailing that pushes limits - whatever those limits may be. And herein lies the rub...and the reason I need to explain a couple of things so people don't start foaming at the mouth right off the bat.

There has been a tremendous amount of hubbub over this "philosophy" in another thread - but that thread apparently "came with a lot of baggage" - to the point that the topic itself got lost in the fog of war. So, this is an attempt to start cleanly.

It must be understood that the love for the adventure and excitement of hard sailing is just as valid and robust in the newbie as it is in the big-sailing old salt. The gap between the two is experience and knowledge. And the goal here is not to fill that gap by quashing the spirit of adventure and excitement with a deluge of cynicism and technicality - but to help us all learn, if and when the time comes, how to better handle that moment when mother nature starts rising beyond our sailing abilities. Because if you keep sailing - it will happen, period. And as you'll see, it can get very frightening very quickly.

For an old salt, these limits will obviously be worlds beyond those of the typical newbie. That old salt will probably snicker at the point at which the newbie becomes terrified - understandably so. Yet, there will inevitably be an even more seasoned salt that will, in turn, snicker at the snickerer when he/she soils his/her own breeches in a blow. It's all subjective and un-ownable.

Therefore, the BFS factor of a newbie experiencing a hard heel and wayward helm for the very first time is just as exciting, important, and valuable (in BFS terms) as the old salt battling a 50 knot gale. It's just about the attitude with which the exploit is approached and remembered - and taken into account as they go back out for more. There are great stories and valuable lessons in both experiences - as well as great opportunities for good hearted slams on the brave posters (which is valuable as well). That's BFS.

So, to be clear this thread is JUST AS MUCH FOR THE SAILING NEWBIE (of which I am one) as it is for the old salt. It's a place to tell your story, listen to others', learn some lessons, and discuss the merits or detractions of Big Freakin' Sails.

The following inaugural BFS stories illustrate what this thread is all about. As I said, I'm a newbie - and you see my first BFS story below. You can then compare that with the other great BFS stories thereafter (sometimes edited to protect the innocent) which I think are great tales from great sailors; they cover the spectrum of "pushing the limits". Then, hopefully, you'll throw down some BFS of your own (either your own story, stories you admire, or stories that are just flat-out lies but with great BFS value - whatever).

Now, let's have some fun...shall we?
 
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#2,557 · (Edited)
Thanks fellas. It's been quite a shock for sure.

We only had liability on her. I thought the same as you Minne on the potential partial liability for the marina. We'll see where things turn out with the insurance. In the end - at least no one was hurt. And with that much carnage to the docks and that many boats - I don't feel like there was anything more I could have done. It was what it was.

Also, I'd been losing interest in the lake sailing anyway (especially with the shrinking lake) and had been thinking of moving on to an ocean boat to keep on the coast. So, that opportunity is now here. And I'm excited about it.

We'll continue to sail "Fiasco" on the lake - and will still have plenty of sailing fun.

So, it's all good. It's just that, after 5 years of sailing her, I found out I had much more of a tie to that crappy old boat than I thought. She was pretty damn cool.

(PS - I'm going to mount the cleat on a plaque with an inscription extolling the many adventures of the S/V Smacktanic. I'll post photos when it's done.)
 
#2,558 ·
First, very sorry for your loss. I holed my boat racing once and it tore me up. It was the one thing on the boat that was in good condition.

Second, I can't believe anyone would have a dock in 100' of water. 25' seems completely unreal. Most places on the bay are lucky to get 7'. If a boat sinks at a slip on the Ches bay, it's usually only a foot lower than when it's floating.

Third, now is a good time to upgrade to the Columbia 32 offshore boat. ;)
 
#2,560 ·
Thanks flood. 100' is a pretty deep, cold dive with low visibility in this lake. I don't see salvage happening. Although I did have a bottle of rum in the ice box. So I might get motivated.

And zz, you're right about the depth. It's crazy. Down around Houston and Corpus you're only looking at 6-8 feet in the slip. Having several boats completely disappear under the slips was a little mind-blowing.
 
#2,562 ·
We don't know about those issues yet. We'll find out I suppose. It only had a small 4hp outboard (with no gas in its integral tank) - and nothing much in the holding tank either. So no chemicals or nastiness to speak of. It was a pretty clean boat in that regard.
 
#2,564 ·
One lake I'm familiar with wouldn't care if it had a mouse on a wheel, they would make you go get it.

Only trying to think of an angle that might get your liability policy to cover you. Then go after the marina, who negligently left the bumper off (many boats survived) to repair her or buy you out.
 
#2,567 ·
Damn, I just saw this. Sorry about your boat, smack. Come on down to Boot Key and hang out with some other Texans! There are four of us Texas boats moored side by side here, plus others around the mooring field. We'll dinghy over to Burdines and have some cheeseburgers, their awesome fries, and plenty of beer! The first round is on me, and I'll even pay for the burger.

I hear Cruisingdad is on his way too. It could be quite a bash!

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/brogdon/

Ralph
 
#2,569 · (Edited)
Smack,

You realize that now that you've sunk a boat, we have to start a separate thread about the sinking of the yacht.

In this thread Sailnet at large will:

1: Monday morning quarterback the whole thing
2: Everyone will say how it never would have happened to them
3: Vilify you for your negligence
4: Take no considerations of your feelings in your time of loss
5: Eventually ban you from the SailNet for defending yourself.

It's nothing personal, it's just what we gotta do. ;) Now where's that new thread button? :p

MedSailor
 
#2,570 · (Edited)
Smack,

You realize that now that you've sunk a boat, we have to start a separate thread about the sinking of the yacht.

In this thread Sailnet at large will:

1: Monday morning quarterback the whole thing
2: Everyone will say how it never would have happened to them
3: Vilify you for your negligence
4: Take no considerations of your feelings in your time of loss
5: Eventually ban you from the SailNet for defending yourself.

It's nothing personal, it's just what we gotta do. ;) Now where's that new thread button? :p

MedSailor
Heh-heh. I completely understand. It is the way of things.

(PS: Here's a classic thread for just that purpose, the title of which pretty much sums it up: Well my day really sucked. )
 
#2,571 ·
Very sad Smack! O'l mother nature strikes again! She should be recoverable even if it is just for salvage and the rum. I just got my tanks pressure checked. When do we start?

You know your invitation to sail downeast is a lifetime one! Right?

Keep smiling.

Down
 
#2,572 ·
Heh-heh. Thanks Down. It actually would be a fun dive. Just dark and cold, I think. I did a lot of diving when I lived in the Solomon Islands. As you can imagine - the wrecks were incredible in Iron Bottom Sound. The deepest I ever went was 45 meters, and got a bit narced on the way down. But the visibility was awesome and the water was nice and warm. 30 meters in this lake would be a whole other thing.

Thanks for invite dude. I appreciate it.
 
#2,573 ·
I did my advanced open water class on travis and went to 110 feet for our deep dive. It was pretty surreal down there. Your rum will definitely be chilled.

The instructor had us try to do simple math problem while we were down there on a slate. Simple problems like 27 + 62. I am a math boy, but in the 60 seconds he gave us I could not do a single one. He point was "you are stupid at that depth". Good lesson I will never forget.

He was a great instructor.
 
#2,576 · (Edited)
I have been that deep with lights and it is not a picnic. If you have a confirmed location and just need to attach a cable it wouldn't be a big deal. If you have to spend time at depth looking for the boat that is a different dive. A good sonar should be able to "see" your boat. Good luck.

Down
 
#2,577 ·
Smack, I’m really sorry to hear of the loss of your beloved Smacktanic. If there is any consolation, without breast cleats on the dock or mid-ship cleats on your boat, there was nothing that really could be done for your boat (or everybody else’s for that matter) in those tight slips and exposure. I hope your liability insurance will cover the claims from the Marina and the governing entity of Canyon Lake. If it is any consolation, you are welcome on-board Freya anytime if your travels ever take you to the San Francisco Bay area. (The America’s Cup 72’s are a sight to behold even on practice days.) And, lil’ Freya will be down in Mexico/SOC in 2016 (just saying).
 
#2,579 ·
Smack, I'm really sorry to hear of the loss of your beloved Smacktanic. If there is any consolation, without breast cleats on the dock or mid-ship cleats on your boat, there was nothing that really could be done for your boat (or everybody else's for that matter) in those tight slips and exposure. I hope your liability insurance will cover the claims from the Marina and the governing entity of Canyon Lake. If it is any consolation, you are welcome on-board Freya anytime if your travels ever take you to the San Francisco Bay area. (The America's Cup 72's are a sight to behold even on practice days.) And, lil' Freya will be down in Mexico/SOC in 2016 (just saying).
Thanks George. That means a lot coming from you. After seeing the destruction down there I was pretty comfortable that there was very little that could have been done differently prior to the windstorm (which was WAY more violent than had been predicted). But - there's always that nagging feeling.

My guess for why we went to the bottom when some of the other Catalinas didn't is the outboard well. With the angle of the wind, those waves would have been slamming almost directly into her stern. And since she was pinned in the slip the force and volume of the water would have been huge. So my guess is that the water pushed up through the opening in the transom, up through the lazarette, and into the cockpit filling it and leaking down into the cabin. Then, with the water pouring in at the bow from the shorn-off stem it just got worse and worse as the boat hobby-horsed - heavy both forward and aft. Again - just a guess.

Anyway I really appreciate yours and everyone else's invites to sail. It's pretty damn cool knowing people have your back.
 
#2,578 ·
Aint worth diving unless there is something really worth going after. My deepest dive is 150' at Forty Fathom Grotto in Florida. Did it as a divemaster candidate with the instructor. Found a nice wrist mounted compass on the mound at the bottom. Definitely narced and loopy. Long time to come back up, lots of just hanging out breathing.

Guess I'm saying that it all depends on the rum. How 'bout it Smack, is that bottle a really good one?
 
#2,580 ·
Aint worth diving unless there is something really worth going after. My deepest dive is 150' at Forty Fathom Grotto in Florida. Did it as a divemaster candidate with the instructor. Found a nice wrist mounted compass on the mound at the bottom. Definitely narced and loopy. Long time to come back up, lots of just hanging out breathing.

Guess I'm saying that it all depends on the rum. How 'bout it Smack, is that bottle a really good one?
No way! I think it was Sailor Jerry's or something.

I will admit that I did dampen the shock that evening with a double scotch:

 
#2,585 ·
I do not know. Tim Jarvis holds both Austrailan and UK citizenship. You can find more about him if you shearch the net. This is not the first push it to the limit journey for him. I have seen him in the news before. It just takes a lot to get more than a yawn out of folks today. I do not think people understand how hard some of the amazing things done are to do. Kind regards, Lou
 
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