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Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

14K views 49 replies 17 participants last post by  rockDAWG 
#1 ·
I just purchased a Beneteau First 38 down in Annapolis. The boat is heading to Norfolk for a light refit and then I will need to get it up to Boston. I've never done this length of trip and was looking for some answers and tips.
1. How long is the trip?
2. Should I go up the Chessapeak or go outside? Mid May is the timeline.
3. Suggested stopping points to fuel up maybe take a break maybe not?
4. Anything else????

Thank you
 
#2 · (Edited)
Nice easy trip that time of year.

125 miles without stopping
26 hrs averaging 5 knots

Straight down the Chesapeake inside-
Possible stops- dstances from previous pt

Solomons- Zanheisers-40 miles
Cockrell Creek-45 miles
Norfolk- 45 miles
Each is 8 hors at 5 knots


Either go straight through the night in one day or get past the Potomac on day one and and be in Norfolk day two. It takes forever to go acriss the mouth of the Potomac ( 3 hours) and can be an adventure if wind opposes tide.

Or take three days


Dave
 
#4 ·
Leaving from Norfolk to Boston right?
Do not go up the Chesapeake it will add many miles and the trip down the Delaware stinks.
Weather will be your guide. I go into inlets safe for commercial shipping. Your next stop after Norfolk can be:
Cape May 140 miles
Atlantic City 30 miles north
Sandy Hook 75 miles (NY harbor entrance)
after that decide on inside or outside
 
#6 · (Edited)
For Norfolk to Boston -
Mid May is still slightly 'chancy' for an 'equinoctal gale' but not as prevalent as late March or April. Watch the development of weather systems, looking for the physical position of the Jet Stream (500 mb charts for Western Atlantic @ Ocean Prediction Center - Atlantic) ... if the Jet Stream is far to the north and fairly straight-line then OK; if the Jet stream is 'undulating' then stay close to the inside/coast.

Ditto to where any HIGH pressure system close to the coast is located .... If close to the coast off New England, then expect NorthEasterlies ... and a 'slog' beating, so stay 'inside' or close to the coast.
If the H is off the coast and located near towards Bermuda or 'south of you', then expect SE to W-SW and smooth downwind/reaching sailing going 'north' going 'outside'.

If inside/coastal, here's some invaluable tips from a "tug driver" on passing through "hellgate" in NYC:
General.
Use Eldrige Tide Tables to plan to cross Hell Gate at SLACK WATER.
Your best bet is to plan the trip so as to keep moving, if you're ahead of schedule run slower rather than just stopping. As a tug guy I want any pleasure craft to be predictable, I am relying on it really, which means not going in circles in confined areas. If you must stop for a bit, going east through the river I would wait well north of the battery. From there south there is just too much current as well as tug, ferry, and dinner boat traffic to be tacking or motoring around with no purpose. People do, but you asked.
Coming the other way there is plenty of room anywhere east of the Brothers, but you need to be aware of the little stuff, sand scows etc. coming off moorings, coming and going from Flushing Bay, and the other little creeks. Most traffic is passing trough.
Listen to channel 13!! Most tug guys dont really want to talk to you, but they probably will. Your best bet is to listen so you know what is happening around you. If you want to talk make your life easier by making your transmissions short, and knowing the difference between one whistle and two both meeting and overtaking. Plenty of recreational passes through everyday. Its really not a huge deal, but if you do decide to hit slack water in all likelyhood you will encounter a greater number of commercial vessels.
Another radio hint, listen to vessel traffic, the east river is channel 12, anything moving through the East River checks in at the Throgsneck or Brooklyn Bridge, and each time somebody checks in they get a rundown of all the traffic and their locations. It would be kind of like listening in on a weather net. Channel 12 is also anchorage control and the Kills south of the AK Railroad Bridge so dont get you landmarks confused.
Most of the commercial traffic especially the big stuff tries to hit slack water or within 30 minutes to an hour either side of it. Thats not to say there wont be traffic at all stages of the tide, but it is not uncommon to have multiple units on both sides of the gates stacked up waiting on each other to get through. A week ago I was fourth in line on my side coming around N. Brother Island.
You need the current tables for slack water, the tide tables wont help you here. I would agree that if your boat can manage it ride the flood through planing to be at least to Rikers Island and hour before Slack at the gate, beware of the current from pier 17 through the Williamsburgh bridge as they are very strong here and you will not want to be against them.

Going North start your trip at the Battery 2 hours after the low.

Going south start your trip from Throgs Neck 2 hours after high at the Battery.

Wear PFD's, stay in the center, have a sharp lookout for barge traffic coming around corners. Have your VHF on Ch13 and an aitr horn handy. Know what one blast means, as distinct from 2. Have a camera ready at all times for magnificant views, and 2 days after a heavy rain,a boat hook ready, if you see any bodies or other debris that may foul your passageway."
 
#7 ·
I just purchased a Beneteau First 38 down in Annapolis. The boat is heading to Norfolk for a light refit and then I will need to get it up to Boston. I've never done this length of trip and was looking for some answers and tips.
1. How long is the trip?
2. Should I go up the Chessapeak or go outside? Mid May is the timeline.
3. Suggested stopping points to fuel up maybe take a break maybe not?
4. Anything else????
Can we assume that if it only needs a light refit it is in good shape? Or are you saving heavy work for Boston?

Do you have an EPIRB? Has the registration been changed? Life raft? What kind of crew? What are you doing for weather updates underway? If all you have is NOAA VHF weather radio get some good weather counsel before heading offshore. It's only a day out of VHF range.

Annapolis to Norfolk is usually about 18-20 hours under power on that boat. I'd leave Annapolis between noon and mid afternoon so you arrive in Norfolk in daylight. If you haven't picked a place yet I'm fond of Vinings Landing Marina. Good services, walking to restaurants, grocery, and West Marine. Easy access to Norfolk airport. Also easy access to the Atlantic when you leave.

Norfolk to Boston should be around 3 days (all "days" are 24-hour days, not daylight hours) straight through in most conditions. Winds permitting and boat condition allowing I'd sail the rhumb line to a point off Cape Cod.

If you want to hop your way up (small 30 gallon fuel tank, no jugs) you're likely to be five-ish days WITHOUT nights at anchor. You'll chew up a lot of time just getting in and out of port.

Regardless back off on engine speed. You should be able to get down to around 0.6 gph which will stretch your range substantially. If your boat has a JH Yanmar around 1800 rpm is good. You can go almost two days on a tank. Two or three five gallon fuel jugs wouldn't hurt.

If you can make Norfolk to Cape May you should be able to make Cape May to Manasquan, NJ (watch for wind over tide -- currents are strong also). Atlantic City is an easy inlet but a pretty short day. AC to Sandy Hook. Manasquan or Sandy Hook through the East River to LI.

Manasquan is a tricky inlet and does deteriorate quickly when the weather is bad.

Don't let people confuse you with discussion of tide. You don't care about tide. You care about current. There are much better sources of information today than the old "so many hours before high tide" approach to current prediction. See Tidal Current Tables .

I usually time my NE-bound transits to go through Hellgate between slack before flood and full flood. If you time it right you'll have a favorable current from Sandy Hook, through NY Harbor, up the East River, and well past City Island. It's another day from CI to Newport. At that point you might as well do the Cape Cod canal - more current issues.
 
#8 ·
Wow..... drooling :)

Congratulation. Nice and fast boat. :)
If boat is good shape, crews are level headed and competent and good weather window, I would go outside.

Best is
Norfolk to Block Island to Hyannis to Cape Cod canal
If needed, stop by Cape May or Sandy Hook to LIS.

Like other said, use 5 kn per hours or 120 nm a day is a good number to judge your traveling time.

Good luck :)
 
#12 ·
Best is
Norfolk to Block Island to Hyannis to Cape Cod canal
If needed, stop by Cape May or Sandy Hook to LIS.
If going outside why fool with Block or the Cape Cod canal? Go out and around.

Like other said, use 5 kn per hours or 120 nm a day is a good number to judge your traveling time.
Units are important. Don't denigrate them. Knots are nautical miles per hour. Therefor knots/hour are nautical miles per hour per hour or units of acceleration. Meaningless in this context. The same applies to those who confuse amps and amp-hrs. Units are IMPORTANT.

Furlongs per fortnight make more sense than knots per hour. Please understand this stuff. It is important.

From there I'd recommend Barnegat, then up to NY harbor...(I detest Atlantic City, and Manasquan is distinctly unaccommodating to sailboats)
Can you elaborate? The First 38 draws nearly 7' if I can use Google correctly. I had a heck of a time with a shoal draft Passport 40 in Barnegat recently. The marina on the North side of the Manasquan channel (Hoffman?) right before the railroad bridge is fine and the fuel dock is on the t-head. In and out isn't bad at all. I agree they don't really understand sailboats (or weather for that matter) so I wouldn't plan to stay there, but as a fuel stop it seems more attractive to me than Barnegat.

Please educate me.
 
#9 ·
1) That depends on how quickly you want to do this "delivery", of course...

2) Same answer as #1... Outside is far quicker, and saves you from having go go around Cape May Point on your way back down the Delaware... However, as you say you've never done a trip of this length before, and the run outside will involve an overnight off a desolate coast with no real bail-out options, it may not be the wisest idea to attempt that the first time out on a boat that is brand new to you...

3) If you do elect to go outside, choose your weather wisely, that is no place to be if an onshore blow develops... Likewise the Jersey coast... Sounds like you have no prior experience running inlets, avoid doing that run with any significant swell running. Chances are you'll wind up in Cape May either way, a very nice stop... From there I'd recommend Barnegat, then up to NY harbor...(I detest Atlantic City, and Manasquan is distinctly unaccommodating to sailboats) Again, going out around Montauk will involve another overnight, crossing 3 shipping lanes, so with your level of experience you'll probably be better off going up thru the Sound. Besides, the trip thru NY harbor is always a thrill, never gets old... Play the tides/currents right on the Sound, and it's not all that much longer than the run offshore...

Get yourself a copy of Eldridge, good luck, and enjoy...
 
#10 ·
I would definitely consider staying inside (Chesapeake to Delaware Bay). This will give you a chance to learn the boat, and give you plenty of places to stop if you find things that need to be fixed, or things you don't have aboard. My last few trips down the Delaware have actually been quite pleasant as I was lucky enough to have the wind and current in my favor. Stop at Cape May for fuel, provisions, and rest up before going off shore. (I usually stay at the South Jersey Marina and eat at the Lobster House which is close by.)
 
#14 ·
I brought my 35 footer home to Mystic from Florida a number of years ago. We came in at Beaufort, NC and stayed inside for a while with a stop at Annapolis. The trip up the Chesapeake included a harbor of refuge at Pt. Lookout. Beating past the Potomac in NW winds in the upper 30 kt range got old real fast. Yes, you do want to consider the wind forecast. With a new boat, you might want the Chesapeake for a proper shakedown, as someone else mentioned. Annapolis is a good place to look for repair parts. I got a new belt for my AP there.

From Annapolis, we went through the C&D Canal and then to the Cape May canal. From Cape May we went directly past Montauk and into Fishers Island Sound. In your case, you would head for Block Island and give yourself a break. From there I would head for Buzzard's Bay. Depending on your endurance, you could stop at Cuttyhunk (short day) or Onset just outside the western end of the Cape Cod Canal if you needed to wait for a fair current.

Going outside Cape Cod instead of the Canal? SVAuspicious can't be serious. You do need Eldridge's to work the currents. from Block Island until you get past the Cape Cod Canal.

I made the trip from Cape May to Mystic in 2 1/2 days in mid May and motored the whole way, due to light air. The shipping was not the problem I expected, but you do need competent watch standers.
 
#17 ·
If you do decide to go outside and it gets snotty remember deep water is your friend.

I would be VERY reluctant to run an unfamiliar inlet. If you feel you HAVE TO then there is no shame in asking for someone to pilot you in. I remember well having to enter at Cape Fear and although it was buoyed and one of the easier inlets I was VERY glad that I called up a passing shrimper and he slowed down to let me follow him in. [ and he threw a lb of shrimp into my cockpit. Me and the cat were well fed before I slept that night.

If in doubt stay out.
Too many boats and lives have been lost trying to run an inlet in less than optimum conditions.
 
#19 ·
If you're buying the boat in Annapolis and taking it to Norfolk for some work, then from Norfolk to Boston. I don't know if I'd go back up the bay to the Delaware after heading down.

As Rich says this is a trip at that time of year that will be dictated largely by the weather
(aren't they all? ) So as jsaronson says, I'd consider my option to look at going offshore to Block island..or making a jump to Cape May then on to block. Then up toward the cc canal.

Another alternative is to head to the Highlands from Cape May and then make a decision from there whether or not you want to stay inside or go outside to block.

There's a dozen ways to do this trip...level of experience, weather, crew, soundness of vessel are all going to be deciding factors. If you go outside from norfolk, you'll be out of VHF range at points for anything but nearby traffic, certainly out of cell phone range, so long range communication would be prudent if not essential. as would life raft, epirb etc.

Were you planning on having someone who has offshore experience onboard? The overnight from Norfolk to Cape May might be a good test of your offshore tolerance. ( weather permitting)
 
#23 ·
There is a true wealth of information here from experienced sailors and even from professional delivery captains, who like professionals from almost every other field of endeavor, do not agree on all points all the time.

To the OP, post a "Crew Wanted" listing, there are many here who would be happy to help you out.
 
#27 ·
There is a true wealth of information here from experienced sailors and even from professional delivery captains, who like professionals from almost every other field of endeavor, do not agree on all points all the time.
I think you'll find that where we differ it is based on different assumptions. When we talk things over consensus is reached pretty easily.

... So watch the weather, don't be in a hurry, and be prepared and make sure your crew is prepared to sit at the dock and wait for better weather. ...

... As for going up the Chesapeake, it adds only 50 miles to the trip, and it's a good way to shake down the boat and the crew. ...

... And going through NYC is enthralling and adds little to the mileage. ...
Weather is important. You really need a way to get weather information on the boat underway. The NOAA VHF material is way too local to plan with. Synoptics are the way to go which realistically means weather fax unless you have Internet.

If you have any doubts about your crew than I agree that heading up the Chesapeake makes sense, mostly because you can drop them in Annapolis or Baltimore and they have lots of public transportation options: BWI and Amtrak.

Is your anchorage at AC the one next to the bulkhead before the bridge or the one opposite Clam Creek ( the entrance for the Farley. Kammermans marinas), That one was blocked a good part of the year by a dredge and its pipes last summer. Have you been back there since Setember 1 yet?
39d 22.93'N 074d 25.28'W I haven't been there since July '12. I don't remember the dredge but I went into the state marina to drop off sick crew and left. I know I've anchored in there since my post in '10 but I don't recall how recently.
 
#24 ·
Hiring a good delivery skipper to go with you and give you the benefit of his knowledge might be the way to go. I can't do it as I'm booked, so I'm not angling for a job, just dispensing free advice.
Philosophically, you need to remember that your boat is small and the sea is big. Go at this very humbly, I notice a bit of the kind of arrogance that gets people in trouble in some of the comments on routes.
The weather still can get very snotty very quickly that time of year, and the water is still very cold. So watch the weather, don't be in a hurry, and be prepared and make sure your crew is prepared to sit at the dock and wait for better weather.
If you want the more direct route, pick a nice SWly to leave on; one that is going to last a couple of days, at least, and head up toward C May or Atlantic City.
Don't try Barnegat; it's tricky and it's not worth the risk. Out of many dozens of trips up and down the NJ shore, I've only gone in there when I was dropping a boat there. It's only 53 miles from Atlantic City to Manasquan; you should be able to pick a weather window that long.
As for going up the Chesapeake, it adds only 50 miles to the trip, and it's a good way to shake down the boat and the crew.
Before you leave, learn what lights mean, both ship and shore.
Winds are generally westerly that time of year, so going up the beach is a good option. If you stay in 40 feet or so, you should have a nice flat-water ride no matter how hard the wind is blowing. Careful of the reefs going up the DelMarVa shore. Bear in mind that if the forecast is for NW winds, you will have wind and waves right on your nose and get no lee from the land.
Again, in many years of taking this route, 75% of the time I end up going up the beach and down LI Sound. The offshore route can be a pain weather-wise, but also the traffic is horrendous with ships and fishing boats all trying to run you over...or so it seems. Mid May is pretty foggy offshore, so you can imagine how much fun that will be, no matter how overloaded with electronics you are. My advice is to not take the chance. And going through NYC is enthralling and adds little to the mileage.

For a brief take on how to find a delivery skipper:
Yacht and Delivery Captains: A Wealth of Knowledge and Experience « « www.yachtworld.com www.yachtworld.com
 
#26 ·
Well-written article. I would add one more way to find a delivery captain, which is to participate in a forum like SailNet or Sailing Anarchy, where you can read the delivery captain's history of posts and determine for yourself whether the captain is the kind of person to whom you would entrust your boat and your life.

There are some great delivery captain participants on SailNet who have added a great deal of knowledge to the discussions here and have proven their expertise in the field through their smartly written posts.
 
#25 ·
Dave,

I have " hit" that hump rpobably a few years back when we went to Silver Cloud Marina to have our exhaust mixer fixed back in Forked River. That passageway back to Barnegat Bay along the Sedge Islands is a narrow twisted mess. even worse in season with the large PB racing through there.

Is your anchorage at AC the one next to the bulkhead before the bridge or the one opposite Clam Creek ( the entrance for the Farley. Kammermans marinas), That one was blocked a good part of the year by a dredge and its pipes last summer. Have you been back there since Setember 1 yet?
 
#29 ·
Having gone in And out of Barnegat over 75 times I would say it is to be respected. Not as easy as Cape May , Absecon, or Manesquan, but for me is the only other inlet I would try on the NJ coast. Having lived there for 18 years helps , and as John has stated the South Jetty definitely improved it. As long as you understand it, know you will face a green can in the middle of the rocks forcing you to the north jetty, and dogleg perpendicular across the back of the inlet it's really not difficult. Care should be given in outbound tide and wind from the NE or E.

It is the perfect midway point between Cape May and Sandy Hook to do the Jersey coast in two days. Manesquan, while a great Inet precludes anchoring. You need to get a slip there.

Johns anchorage picture is a pretty one. There s even an anchorage a little further on Meyers Hole two toward High Br Yacht Club.
 
#32 ·
Just Manasquan and Cape May, nothing has changed there...

Passing by Barnegat about 3 weeks after the storm, the buoyage appeared unchanged... I watched a commercial vessel depart, and from what I could tell, he was taking the normal track out...

the Oyster Creek channel into the bay has undoubtedly changed somewhat, but with all the commercial fishing done out of Barnegat Light, if the inlet channel had shifted significantly, it certainly would have been re-marked by now...
 
#33 ·
Have to do the same trip. Crew will be my wife/me/ two delivery captains ( dealers for the boat) Believe they propose leaving Norfolk,Va -Straight shot to Barrington, R.I. Cut into L.I. sound depending on weather. Non stop. Although new boat it will be fully found except for entertainment electronics. Time late April/early May. Any concerns? Should I appeal to do the coastal hopping rather than straight shot? Figured learn the boat better in shorter time if we just "get her done".
 
#39 ·
Prudence dictates a proper shakedown before you go on an offshore trip like this. You need to verify all systems are working and up to the task--even if brand new--by spending significant time off the dock, but near enough to get a tow or other help if needed. Heading up the Chesapeake would offer you "offramps" if needed. The detour would be worth the several extra days if you've never been there.

If you stick to the original plan and you've never been offshore for days at a time, you may want to take precautions against sea sickness.
 
#35 · (Edited)
This trip is my next cruising goal. I would much rather take a straight shot to Block Island from Cape May or Norfolk than coastal hop.

Here are the disadvantages of coastal hopping as I see it:

Risk of collision with local boat traffic
Risk of collision with Navaids, fishtraps, exposed wrecks, etc.
Risk of getting caught on lee shore with easterly/Noreaster
Risk of grounding on shoals, inlets, wrecks, etc.
Need to accommodate currents/tides in passage timing
Need to make certain distance in certain time for daylight inlet passages
Longer distance and considerably longer time required

Advantages:

Radio contact
Help nearby
Closer to rescue, if necessary
Psychological comfort of seeing land, other boats
Ability to refuel, restock, if necessary
Ability to sleep uninterrupted at dock or anchor w/o watch standing

Based on my non-scientific study of boating problems in the mid-Atlantic, most seem to stem from proximity to shore, not from being offshore. The distance of the straight shot from Va/NJ to RI is never so far from shore that you can't be saved by USCG if you carry an EPIRB.
 
#36 ·
I see one glaring problem with your pro/con list above and that's a heavy emphasis on the availability of rescue. Offshore trips should be planned as if rescue was not a possibility. Make sure you and your craft are ready for the trip. If you aren't, don't go.

I note that you seem to believe that you will encounter shipping near the coast but not offshore. If this is so, you couldn't be more wrong. You will be crossing two very busy in- and out-bound lanes, as well as encountering a ton of fishing activity. Add to that the fact that in the spring you stnd a good chance of encountering fog and you are setting yourself up for at least a very unpleasant passage.

If you are concerned about being on a lee shore, just avoid leaving in those conditions.

Don't be what I call a "mighty man of the sea" and leave on a schedule. Wait for a decent weather window for your trip. And take the best route. Treat it as something to be completed within a set time and you open yourself up for all kinds of trouble.
 
#37 ·
Both regall me with sea stories of storms they have gone through on transports. Wife and I both still work (MD/RN). Can arrange 7-10d window for trip. Boat has SSB, full nav with all the toys, raft/EPIRBs,Jordan series drogue, full ditchbag stormjib on colego softstay etc. so have much less concern about safety. Boat is purpose built passagemaker as well. Figure with radar and AIS shipping channels less of an issue.Wife has no offshore experience. I've done multiple Marion/Newport to Bermudas and some transports. Figure safe way to get her to realize the danger in the ocean is at the hard edges. Will use 96h weather charts to pick window. Will motorsail in light air (have 200+h of fuel at 7kts.) so figure 4d max.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Also note plan to do 3 person watch schedule with her always on watch with another person. I want to have one of "paid" crew with me as much of the time as possible to learn ship systems. That way the admiral is learning from some one other than me and I'm learning from people who really know my boat.
Question is will we gain(learn) more fom this trip going coastal or offshore?
 
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