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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G
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Thread: iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-07-2013 11:42 PM
Ritchard
Re: iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G

For Apps, I have been thrilled with iSailor on both my iPhone and my iPad. The app is free, they are really in the charts business. However, US Charts are cheap as borscht because they are just the free NOAA charts in proprietary format. We have to pay more in Canada because Canadian Hydrographic Service charges for their charts. Still, for the excellent functionality of the app, paying $25 for a huge region of Canadian charts is peanuts. I think US regions are like $5 apiece. (Hmmm, two food metaphors, did I forget to eat again?)
03-07-2013 10:36 PM
Minnewaska
Re: iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G

Ipad should never be used for nav in an airplane. I've only cross checked it.

At 8 kts on the water, no problem.
03-07-2013 05:41 PM
Minnesail
Re: iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G

I have a 1st generation iPad 3G that I've used with the MotionX app in the Apostle Islands on Lake Superior. Although there is now some limited cell coverage up there, the first two years I used it there was absolutely no cell signal. I found it to be very accurate. At the marina it even placed us in the right slip. Overnight it would show our little swings at anchor. It never jumped around, it never failed to give a location. The only quirky bit was the elevation readout which would wander up and down, something you're obviously not doing on a lake.
03-07-2013 04:57 PM
Tymadman
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandedsooner View Post
I think some of the people are saying their ipad gps works great for them even when the 3G and wifi are turned off. Just to clarify what they were saying.
I think the difference might show up if you travelled a long distance with the IPad or IPhone off, then turned it on without WiFi or 3G enabled. I think you would then see how long it takes to get a fix with only the GPS.

I have done that (not deliberately) and it does take several minutes for my IPhone to get a fix in that situation.
I've never been out of cellular coverage and checked the accuracy though. Once I realise that 3G is turned off I have always turned it on in a hurry.

In my experience with Navionics on my IPhone I have found the accuracy to be excellent at all times, but as mentioned I am never out of cellular coverage AFAIK.
03-07-2013 08:15 AM
Shinook
Re: iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Further, I've cross checked it at altitude in the cockpit with a program that is heavily used by general aviation pilots and compared it to my panel mounted certified GPS. Again, identical. There is no cell signal at those altitudes.
Funny you should mention that, because that's where most (but not all) of my experience using these devices away from other sources of information is. I flew fairly extensively with an iPad in the cockpit that we used for chart information (with paper backups).

We actually had 3 sources of GPS data. The primary "FAA approved for IFR" GPS built into the panel with RAIM monitoring and all that good stuff, another handheld unit used to rx weather (the wx receiver for the built in unit is $11,000!), and of course the iPad. We routinely flew a handful of routes, mostly the same over and over.

There were cases that the iPad worked perfectly for the entire flight, obtaining a fix on the ground and maintaining it in the air with an accurate altitude and location. There were a lot of times that wouldn't be the case, it'd do what I described earlier and this occurred frequently over a variety of weather conditions and times of day. The app we used would show your fix on the selected backdrop (charts, terrain, wx, etc) and at the bottom display GPS altitude, ground speed, accuracy, and a number of other configurable options. I usually left "accuracy" on and it would vary between 5 miles and 100 miles on a regular basis, the location on the chart changing as a result. While I didn't keep a log of how many times it did this, I'd say it was close to 50% of the time. I was never able to narrow it down to a specific environment condition. When it happened, the built in GPS never issued RAIM warnings (and no NOTAMs for GPS outages), so satellites were visible.

Anyway, you are entitled to use what you want, obviously. I wasn't going to respond any further until I saw this comment and felt it was worth explaining a little more. I know plenty of people who trust the GPS on their iPad, including at least one fool that shoots instrument approaches with it, they've survived OK thus far (people do dumb things in airplanes too). My standard isn't based on "it works once", though, I've known of enough people who did stupid things a handful of times and gotten away with it, then their luck ran out eventually. Note that I wouldn't consider using mobile phones as a source of nav information in this context "stupid", I just wouldn't do it, the tolerances are a little different than aviation in most circumstances and hopefully you know where you are without the GPS.

All that said, I've had our primary GPS (which cost around $20,000 installed) fail as well and had to rely on other navigational sources. I was able to identify the failures because I was monitoring our location using other non-GPS sources of information, even before the RAIM warnings kicked in. I guess it's a matter of how tolerant of failure you are and what your requirements are, but my personal experiences lead me to believe using it for anything beyond finding the nearest place to eat is unsafe in any context. YMMV.
03-07-2013 06:30 AM
Minnewaska
Re: iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G

Quote:
Originally Posted by strandedsooner View Post
I think some of the people are saying their ipad gps works great for them even when the 3G and wifi are turned off. Just to clarify what they were saying.
That is exactly what we are saying.

Everyone is entitled to share their experience, but I've used mine extensively and its been amazingly accurate, more than I expected. I do not consider it primary navigation on the water, but I've often compared it to my chartplotter and its never been anything other than dead on the same. I have needed it to bail me out of a chartplotter failure once.

Further, I've cross checked it at altitude in the cockpit with a program that is heavily used by general aviation pilots and compared it to my panel mounted certified GPS. Again, identical. There is no cell signal at those altitudes.
03-07-2013 12:27 AM
joyinPNW
Re: iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G

We have the Ipad II Cellular model but don't need the cell coverage for INavx as long as you download the charts before you depart. I have it loaded on my phone as well for redundancy and it's been awfully handy to pull it out when we're sitting away from the boat when we have a quick question about a route, etc. Their customer service is excellent as well. We also have Aye Tide to compliment INavx and Boating Suite for boat log/maintenance info. Love INavx and it's really intuitive and powerful. In our area (Puget Sound), you can activate the AIS and see (but not transmit...) other boats nearby, including the large behomoths!

Yes, we have all the paper charts, too...

Enjoy!
03-06-2013 11:05 PM
Shinook
Re: iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallard View Post
Any opinions out there about apps for an iPhone 4? I think I just downloaded Intellicast for Boaters, but I can't find it.??? What about a charting app?

I have redundant navigation gear and would only consider the iPhone for deep backup in a coastal setting where the cell coverage is generally acceptable.
I had Jeppesen for a while but it was dog slow on my iPad1, I also thought the interface was not intuitive. I wouldn't recommend it, but you can try it for free iirc.

I should note that the first gen iPad is substantially slower than later generations, so performance may be better on other devices.
03-06-2013 10:58 PM
fallard
Re: iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G

Any opinions out there about apps for an iPhone 4? I think I just downloaded Intellicast for Boaters, but I can't find it.??? What about a charting app?

I have redundant navigation gear and would only consider the iPhone for deep backup in a coastal setting where the cell coverage is generally acceptable.
03-06-2013 10:47 PM
Shinook
Re: iPhone4 and iPad2 w/o 3G

Quote:
Originally Posted by strandedsooner View Post
I think some of the people are saying their ipad gps works great for them even when the 3G and wifi are turned off. Just to clarify what they were saying.
I'm aware.

It has not for me. If anything this should tell you that YMMV. I wouldn't trust it as a navigation source unless I've been to my destination and seen it work under multiple conditions, but I've personally seen it fail a number of times, enough to know I wouldn't rely on it unless I had to.

I'm also not confident that disabling 3G and wifi is a reliable test. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the devices cache location information when it's pulled, meaning the lack of 3G or wifi sources wouldn't impact the ability of the device to locate itself as it would begin the process using cached location data.
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