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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?
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Thread: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-07-2013 11:50 PM
Ritchard
Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsaboat View Post
I thought about clam cleats. The boat that I crew on racing Sundays has them. They work well, but the heel of my hand is always sore on Mondays from giving them a thump to make sure the line is seated. Probably unnecessary, but I can't help myself.
I usually quickly press the line into the cleat with the tips of two fingers, then let the tension do its thing. If you feel compelled to thump the line into the clamcleat, maybe the cleat is undersized? My 9/16ths sheets fit easily and snugly into the very bottom of the cleat. I sailed the boat at least 60 outings/days last year, and had no slips when I was winching. Newcomers would often goof it up, but we feed them to the salmon.
03-07-2013 09:05 PM
Faster
Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsaboat View Post
Thanks rhr. I am leaning toward this config right now. The port side cam will have to be positioned forward of the winch to keep the proper angle, of course.
Carrying the wrap around like my initial picture showed will lead the port sheet to aft of the winch.. Pretty much where you're at in the pic above... Should work fine..
03-07-2013 08:00 PM
itsaboat
Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhr1956 View Post
Put the cleat right about here...
Thanks rhr. I am leaning toward this config right now. The port side cam will have to be positioned forward of the winch to keep the proper angle, of course. I'll head out to the boat Saturday (or tomorrow if I can manage to blow a vacation day) and dry fit the cam cleats to see how I like it.

I was approaching this from the angle of passenger comfort at first, but realized that was all wrong after Faster's helpful comments. If I install a cam cleat at a position that discourages sitting there, maybe I can finally stop having to ask someone to move their derrière from in front of the $#@% winch every time we tack.
03-07-2013 07:17 PM
fallard
Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

I've moved on from a rather spartan catboat to a bigger boat with lots of bells and whistles (and self-tailing winches). For many years, though, I was a real Luddite for the 15 years I owned the catboat. ("Luddite" sounds better than "frugal" and a whole lot better than "cheap".)

The mainsheet attached to the 19 ft boom on the catboat was stopped around a horn cleat. No winch. Did that for 15 years and never considered anything fancier. We raced her for years and did a lot of fine tuning of the sail trim, too, so the bronze cleat stayed polished.

Looking at the photos, I don't see a compelling need to upgrade your hardware if you are not so inclined. About the only "hardware" I added to my catboat was lazyjacks--and that was after getting caught in 30 kts and wondering how I could conveniently drop everything, including the 14 ft gaff, and keep the sail and me in the boat.
03-07-2013 06:54 PM
blutoyz
Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsaboat View Post
Yes, the 84-85 Pearson 27 was the same mold as the '81-83 US27 from what I can gather. Pearson bought it and made a couple of dozen at least (my hull is #24) over a couple of years. In 86 they switched to another design and still called it the P27 just to add to the confusion. Here is the thread I started when I first bought her: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...hull-24-a.html

There is one other US27 sailor on here, US27inKS, or something like that.

Have you upgraded any of the hardware on your boat? The horn cleats behind the wheel are just a little inconvenient to me but I am not ready to drop $1800 on self tailing winches yet. I would rather put that money into new sails.
This will be the first season so no upgrades planned until I know what needs doing. This was bought as a "first" boat so I don't know if it will get any real upgrades anyhow. You never know though, the PO was so in love with the handling I may stay with her long enough to throw some dough into updates.

I do plan on lazyjacks, sternrail seats, and possibly a main halyard relocate with clutches prior to launch in May.

Thanks for the link, I will check out your original post.

Bill
03-07-2013 01:43 PM
Irunbird
Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith10 View Post
The best solution, also most expensive, is to get self tailers. Beyond that, I think you're better off with the horn cleats you've got. I used them with same setup as yours for many years. The advantage to a horn over a cam cleat is that you don't have to "pull through" the cleat. You just hook the line under the horn and the tension is off. With a cam, you've got to take "one more turn" with the winch as you're pulling the line through the cam. Sometimes that "one more turn" just isn't there. Also, releasing a short length of sheet in order to trim is much easier with your existing cleats.
I think you'll have trouble getting a clean lead from the winch to the cleat on the side of the combing- it's going to rub.
Also, pulling down through that cam is a terrible angle to get any force.
Personally, I'd keep your current cleats in place and save up for self tailers.
Or you could do both. It is definitely expensive (about $800 for both winches in my case, and both were upgradable). We had the cam cleats working for a while, but I replaced the winch top with self-tailing tops to make it easier while singlehanding. When I race with crew, they almost always prefer the simplicity of the cam cleats. Also- if you do much singlehanding, you may consider cross-sheeting, which would probably mean (besides just longer sheets, maybe) placing the cleats on the horizontal surface next to your winches. In that case, angle would be less important since the sheet would be running across the cockpit.. It would be a bit difficult to achieve tight trim because you'd be tailing from across the cockpit and would have to grind with one hand while tailing with the other...
03-07-2013 01:07 PM
rhr1956
Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsaboat View Post
My boat has horn cleats for the jib sheets but I am going to install cam cleats for ease and speed of tacking and trimming. I purchased a couple of Harken Cam-Matic 150s to install, but am not sure exactly where I want to put them. I don't want to remove the horn cleats, since that is how we attach the aft dock lines and might need them for many other reasons. However, that makes space to install the cam cleats a little tight. My main options seem to be 1) installing them between the winches and the horn cleats, creating a potentially tight situation or 2) or vertically on the coaming at a location that will not interfere with cockpit seating.

I attached a couple of photos to illustrate the situation. Any suggestions?
Put the cleat right about here...
03-07-2013 12:54 PM
rhr1956
Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Mine is done like Faster's diagram except that I mounted the cam cleat directly vertical under the tail end of the sheet where it comes off the winch. They work great and the sheet pops right out when you need it too.
03-07-2013 12:04 PM
Faster
Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

Right now nobody (except maybe the helmsman) is likely to have to 'sit' on a coaming-top cleat... I think I'd keep it that way if possible. A cam cleat in the back once in a while is better than a horn or jam cleat up your you-know-what
03-07-2013 11:59 AM
jsaronson
Re: Cam cleat placement for jib sheets?

or move the horn cleats aft - with appropriate backing, and put the cams on blocks of teak to improve the angle.
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