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Last week we moved Just Sailin from Panama City to Clearwater. WOW - What a trip. Could not have had better weather forcast which was 90% wrong. We left PC about 7 am in light air and nice seas. Went around Cape and headed east. Winds came up and seas went to 3-4. All good until dark, About an hour after dark winds & sea went way up. Got pounded until about sun up. Seas subsided to 3-4. As sun coming up engine oil alarm goes off, shut it down, check oil - none on stick. Fill it up - start up - oil pouring off top of engine. Shut down. Sailed rest of way in 2-4. Tired-sore- but safe and trilled to be in. Now after a couple of days to rest and recoup, time to deal with the engine. I have a mechanic coming on Wednesday to diagnose:
Questions:
1. While I have always assumed that our engine was a M18, my dip stick says Z500. In my research today I see that there is a Z500. Maybe the PO replaced engine with Z500. I want to be sure any replacement parts are for the correct engine. Suggestions??
2. If engine is toast, I don't see any M18 available but did find a completely rebuilt M25. Has anyone replaced an M18 with an M25?? If not, what types of engines have been used and what issues came up.
The Kubota Z500 engine was used as the base for the Universal 5411 Diesel, later called the M15. Could be someone replaced the dipstick, so you do need to investigate further. Is the engine raw-water cooled or fresh-water cooled? In other words is there a heat exchanger with an anti-freeze coolant circuit? The 5411/M15 was raw-water cooled while the larger Universal engines were fresh-water cooled.
Top of the engine is probably the valve cover gasket, if you shut it down right away its probably OK. Do you do any maintenance yourself, I would fill and run at idle and see what leaks. If not bring a mechanic in.
There wouldn't be water coming out of the valve cover. Could be from the thermostat housing or worse case the head gasket. Best case just a blown hose, which rough motion can cause. As above, the M18 and M15 are both two cylinder. If raw water cooled it's an M15. There was an add on fresh water kit for the M15, and it's fresh pump is at the back of the engine. If both pumps are up front, it's an M18.
Actually he said " oil " is pouring out,and the crankcase is empty,if it ran much with no oil whatever the reason for the leak,..the bearing are likely spun and it will need new bearing,wrist pins,,crank ground ect.....pretty well a rebuild.......Ralph
Oops, missed that. Oils a whole different story. And if it ran dry, that ain't good. Might be ok if shut down quick enough, but it only takes a few seconds to start damaging things.
Rough conditions and it sounds like the OP was 'motorsailing'... some engines don't like being heeled over, and can lose oil when they are. Possibility?
Had something like that happen to me coming into a new port late at night. Engine alarm went off and smoke pouring out of the engine compartment. Shut off engine and sailed to shallow water to anchor. Inspection showed engine oil over everything. Told my, new to sailing, companion that it wasn't an emergency since we were a sailboat and that we would check out the problem in the am when the engine was cool.
Prepared a nice dinner on the hook and inspected the engine more closely After breakfast. Cleaned everything up and refilled engine with old oil (have a very clean oil catchment), started engine up and located the leak....oil pressure sensor line had split! Spliced line and put a gallon of new oil in (amazing how much oil had pushed out in less than 20 seconds!) and the problem was fixed.
Recommend you refill with oil and find the exact location of the leak....a lot of fluid on top of th engine doesn't necessarily mean the leak is right there. Especially if you have a pressurized oil line the problem could be very simple. If you shut the engine down when the alarm went off you may have averted actual engine damage.
Thanks to all for your input. I don't think engine ran more than a few seconds after alarm went off and only a few seconds after refilled with oil but it was really coming out. It was serious ugly and not safe to try to work on it. I have a mechanic coming to look at it on Wednesday and will report finding. Any opinion on replacing M18 with M25??
If you've been paying attention, the Z500 on the dipstick says you have a 5411 (M15). See the posts above about the cooling system and water pump(s) to help confirming what you have. is the nameplate still on the engine and what does it say?
If it's a 5411, that's only 11HP and an M25 would be a BIG step up.
THE VERDICT..... Went to the boat this morning. Looking over the engine - with the exception on oil being in the tray ( a bunch of it) we couldn't find any evidence of an exit point for the oil. Finally decided to fire it up and see whats up.
Started easily, after a few seconds oil pouring off the starboard side below head - shut down. No weird sounds or knocks.
Get looking and there is about a 4 inch piece of bronze tube attached to a T with the oil alarm and oil pressure. It wobbles side to side and then breaks off. Problem found. Guess it must be metal fatigue from the weight of the senders be shaken over the years. Tried to get to it with an easy out with no luck. Got way to hot by midafternoon to work below deck but still in the sun. Going to take off alternator & starter and should have better access. Had a hose made to go from engine to senders, that should eliminate vibration fatigue.
I'd do the clean up and let the mechanic find where the oil is leaking first. Might be an easy and cheap fix....something a Napa or other automotive place can supply.
Could be a split tubing...easy fix.
When you start talking engine r/r it makes sense, imo, to also weigh the Beta 25 new replacement with tranny option. It ain't cheap but if you're planning a death-till-you-part relationship with that boat...could be justifiable.
Glad you problem seems to be an easy fix,hopefully there are no long term issues with running it out of oil,,,this is actually an example where synthetic oil makes a big difference as it seems to coat the moving parts better and has less problems when an engine gets run dry for whatever reason.....good luck...Ralph
Glad to see it's something simple. That engine, M18 or 5411, came with only an idiot light for oil pressure, so your tubing and two sensors were an owner installed modification. You should be able to get the broken piece out with an easy out if you can get to it. Removing the exhaust manifold will help a lot. The alarm sensor should screw into the hole without modification of its the original sender. The trick is its metric so aftermarket parts could be hard to find on the US.
When I started reading the thread, I thought it was about another alternator mounting bracket issue. You should be aware of the Universal M18, M25 and M25-XP alternator mounting bracket service bulletin. Main Sail has an excellent pictorial HOW TO on it here. If these engines were in cars, the NHTSA would have mandated a recall to address this issue.
Reading further, I see that it was a pressure sender line. My M25 is fitted with a hydraulic hose (rubber) that goes from the engine block fitting (where a pressure sender would be mounted) to a "T" fitting which has both the pressure sender (for the gauge) and a pressure switch (for the light) fitted. The hose is hung from a zip tie that is mounted to a bulkhead. Note that the pressure sender gets less accurate (reads low) when it gets hot (like from the engine).
Glad it was simple. Sounds like basically the same issue I had. It is simply amazing how fast the oil emptys from the sensor line.....it's measured in seconds that is for sure. I suspect that you will have no damage to the engine and now you know that your alarm works and it's value!
Here what I found today. Because of my schedule, I havent had much time to work on engine but finally finished repair and fired her up. Started right up and ran smoothly. I noticed some oil in tray and got to inspecting closer. Steady oil drip from back of engine. Not coming from anywhere on top......... Rear main??? What to do?? Suggestions appreciated.
There would be a weep hole where the gear bolts to the engine block. Should be easy to see if that's it. You will surely need an inspection mirror,be careful of the moving bits. Clean it off good some talcum powder or white spray paint will help spot leaks. Again be careful if its running.
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