Fight Club____for Sailors

[WaterView]

This is a funny thread. About Surf......I recall some posts about a legal problem he had, but I was away and never caught what it was all about? Anyone know where to find it?

Mods, I'm behaving, please don't delete, edit, my post or ask me to go to the sailinganarchy site. I don't even know what sailing anarchy is. I like it here.

[sailaway21]

Good posts, Sapper.

I'll give you about half the benefit of the doubt, Smack. I suppose you're just after some adventurous sea stories. I'd probably recommend Jack London. Alastair MacLean does a nice job with the pen and the sea.

The problem with the thread as started by Surf and revived by you is that most people with the type story you desire have little desire to relay it. Most of them aren't very exciting, other than being terrifying, and there's often as much chance for their to be stupidity as well as heroism involved. And some here, like the late Robert Ganier, are just modest. This thread does not attract nor promote modesty and that's casting things in as good a light as one can regarding the peacockery here. Most of it is just juvenile and inexperienced juvenile at that.

Those of us who've made our lives in deep water are, as stated earlier, fair weather sailors. Not that we ever had the choice; we had jobs to do. But ask us if we want to go out and test ourselves or our boats against the sea and we'll likely take a pass. We've nothing to prove and we, frankly, regard those with something seemingly to prove as either idiots or attention-seekers. You could look up the thread on Ken Barnes attempted circumnavigation for an example within these forums.

Sailing is an optional activity for the vast majority of us. As such it means that risking our lives cavalierly for no good purpose is foolish. sure we might have to do some extraordinary things if caught out in weather but, most times, it's only because we made a mistake in the first place by getting caught out. And I can tell you that professionals don't get paid to take their vessels in harm's way just to see what man and ship are capable of doing. They're expected to not put her there as best as they can bring her through if found there. Capische?

So you might want to consider a bit of slack to those who consider wringing 5.1 knots out of a 5 knot boat an accomplishment worth talking about versus their more "exciting" experiences. They probably are long past measuring the size of their "stones" in either case. And while we're on the point; a steady diet of rum in your twenties might be enough to get you classified as a bad boy in some circles while in most circles the habit usually ends with everyone just calling you a drunk.

Ironically, we used to have a saying about seamen who espoused just what this thread purports to honor, "they do all their sailing on shore, and all their f%#$@*g at sea".

I don't begrudge you the enjoyment of dipping a rail, I've been known to do so a bit more than strictly necessary on occasion. But don't attempt to place that in the "large stones" category until you've spent a season pulling crab in the Gulf of Alaska or spent a four hour watch beam and beam with a veritable fleet of ships no further than a mile off rounding Cape St. Vincent in fog so thick you cannot see the bow. Those guys don't claim to have stones, they claim to be scared silly and have no desire to do it again unnecessarily. It's just what the job required-not an optional activity in your little yachty boat.

A lot of like Sapper's former line of work--been there, done that, and don't see any need to go back. He's not bragging, he's just saying in a different way, don't go there if you don't have to.

I'm not trying to fracture your stones here but I am trying to say that where you're going with all this is rather juvenile and is promoting of poor seamanship--because real sailors and real seamen avoid what this thread glorifies. That's how they got to be called real seamen and real sailors.

ps
you're correct in your full listing of deadlight definitions. That being said, the type you refer to is usually called a skylight while a deadlight covers a porthole or portlight. It has been used as you do, but not commonly any longer.

[CalebD]

A hearty 'you go girl' to Sway on that last post.
I have been trying to stay out of this pissing contest because it is just that. You are a sailor if:
- you broke a rib or two while trying something stupid that you should not have in weather you should have seriously considered
- you seriously miscalculated your course but had enough spinach along to row all the way back to your destination while getting your rails wet?
- you lost a friend due to a bad miscalculation in a bad seaway and the CG did not get there in time?
WTF?
As has been said on this thread so many times, it is the journey not the destination and sometimes 'interesting' situations or weather pop up to make it more than just a journey. The journey can become a survival drill pretty quickly. How macho is it if you have to call the CG for help?
I don't have half or a quarter of the open ocean time that some of the folks here have on sailboats and it took all of my courage and knowledge to do a 400+ nm delivery on a 51' sailboat from Tortola to the Turks & Caicos this past June: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruisi...gry-ocean.html
Nothing bad happened and we did not dip the rail in the water once. Does that make me a wimpy sailor?
Once we made our port in TCI I abandoned ship after 4 days because I had the rest of my life to tend to. I was initially scared shitless at night once the horizon disappeared but eventually got used to it. After a day or so it was nice to be greeted by the swell on the open ocean pushing us in our WNW direction at dawn. The moon and stars were reassuring as well as I calmed down and got accustomed to the motion of the boat. We could have raised the cruising chute so we could do around 8+ knots but there were only 2 of us on board and we chose not to. Does that make us chicken-**** sailors also?
If you really want testosterone laden sailing why don't you try to join Larry Fooking Ellison on his new trimaran he wants to sail in the Americas Cup? If you can't afford that then why not just get a Hobie Cat or Prindle Cat and see if you can right it after you have turtled it somewhere in the trade winds without outside help.
There are no 'old, bold sailors' unless they have retired or died trying.
Am I a sailor in your eyes?
I don't care a whit what you think as I would like to live out my natural life expectancy without endangering my friends and fellow sailors.
BTW, have you noticed the 'Fight Club for Beer Drinkers' thread that I started to mock your silly ass?
Over and out.

[knothead]

So, my little story sucked so bad that it didn't warrant even a single comment. Not even from Painkiller who was just trying to get to 100 posts.
Jeez, I guess I'll keep my day job.

[painkiller]

Sorry, knothead. I was hoping to get a Sailnet T-shirt or something for getting to 100.

Actually, I did like your story. In fact, if I saw that on the bookshelf at Border's, I'd buy it.

[craigtoo]

On the contrary knot.

More please... I read with interest.... really really enjoyed it.

It get's a big..."Holy Crap...!" (Frank Barone would have been proud)..

I can imagine your Dad trying to lug the giant compass through a swamp...and the poor puppy! Damn!

but.. yes...keep your day job. I'm sure I'll have to retain your services one day!!!

again.. more please. (and if you choose to start a thread worthy of such a story I would understand that as well...)

[painkiller]

Hah. And Sailaway's diatribe (and CalebD's "me too") continues the circle that is the Fight Club thread. OK, cue Smackdaddy then Sailhog, then another righteously indignant post. Classic.

[sailingdog]

Sapper/Sway-

Well said.

Knothead-

Being a man of adventure generally leaves you lonely at the end IMHO....

[sailortjk1]

Originally Posted by knothead

So, my little story sucked so bad that it didn't warrant even a single comment.

It was a very good read.
After I had read it I was just not sure how or if we should respond.
Sounds like it was an adventure everyday for the young Knotty, but at the same time a very difficult way to grow up.
I am glad it turned out the way it did; cause if I ever need a rigger, I know where I am looking.

[RickQuann]

Steve,

Excellent read but whoa, what a tough life ... you are fortunate to have survived. Thanks for sharing