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  #1881 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2009
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Changing directions in something like energy takes DECADES. You don't wake up one day and say "oh, oil is now $5 so we will head in another direction".
sure you do, you quit driving so much and start car pooling while technology catches up or we're ready to pay for something more convenient.

all through history we've managed to transition without government interference, from fire wood to coal, from horses to automobiles, from steam engines to internal combustion engines, from telegraphs to cellular phones. Kind of makes you wonder how me managed.

Like I said, there is nothing from stopping you from buying a Prius or a hydro powered car if you want to just like I bought solar for my boat even though a Honda generator was cheaper.
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  #1882 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2009
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The attitude of "we want the cheapest price all the time" is just like saying "My kid has the money to buy a lot of candy bars, so therefore it must be good for him to buy and eat them". Not true.
Sure it's not true, because it's an untrue comparison to begin with. Again, nobody is making you buy the cheap stuff. Just don't take away the option from the rest of us.
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  #1883 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2009
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there is no downside to harnessing technology and intelligence to meet our energy needs.
Actually, I think we have a pretty good track record of jumping into stuff, only to find new unintended consequences later on. PCBs and nuclear waste to name just two.

When I hear the talk of harnessing wind power, tidal power and geo-thermal power I can't help but wonder what balances those energy sources will upset. We'll find out afterward I guess, because that's the way we do it.
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  #1884 (permalink)  
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That attitude worked out well for the American car companies! They will switch to more efficient cars....when people stop buying the existing models, right?
I think it's more that they'll switch to them when the people want them. By the way, hybrid car sales are decreasing since the high gas prices of 2008.


Quote:
Hybrid car sales statistics have shown steady growth over most of the last five years, but sales peaked in early 2008 and have seen a steady decline in the past few months. Considering the spike in oil and gasoline prices up to about July of 2008, and their rapid decline once the economic downturn hit later in 2008, it's not surprising that sales show a peak followed by a steady drop. Take a look at this chart, which shows three data series: hybrid car sales statistics by month, a 12-month moving average of hybrid car sales, and average US gas prices per gallon, from January 2004 to March 2009:
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  #1885 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2009
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Will you guys STOP this POLITICAL ECONOMIC CRAP!!!
This is the GLOBAL WARMING THREAD
START YOUR OWN DAMN ENERGY THREAD OR POLITICS THREAD
BUT STOP F$%##ing up this one.





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Last edited by camaraderie : 06-22-2009 at 11:20 PM.
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  #1886 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erps View Post
all through history we've managed to transition without government interference, from fire wood to coal, from horses to automobiles, from steam engines to internal combustion engines, from telegraphs to cellular phones. Kind of makes you wonder how me managed.
That's because we didn't. What makes you think that those transitions were done without government help?

To add to your list:
Air Travel
Railroads
were transitions that were speed up and spearheaded by the government.

A few details if you care to learn:
1. The entire highway system in the USA, including such legends as the Lincoln Highway, Interstate System and virtually ALL major state highways, were created by the governments.....completely subsidized as a way to promote good car and bike travel.
2. The largest accomplishment in the first 100 years of our history, the transcontinental railroad, coordinated and paid for by the government. No other entity was large enough to do so.
3. The post office and the military both helped tremendously in the development and use of airplanes.
4. The Telegraph- "Congress (reflecting public apathy) funded $30,000 to construct an experimental telegraph line from Washington to Baltimore, a distance of 40 miles (the FIRST telegraph). Six years later, members of Congress witnessed the sending and receiving of messages over part of the telegraph line.

I guess it's easier to say that all these things just happened by themselves...with the only problem being that IT IS NOT TRUE.

There are certain things that the private sector cannot or will not do without some help. As a for instance, the private sector cannot assign a railroad path 3,000 miles through the country! The private sector cannot and does not build vast road networks and bridges and tunnels. Without these, the automobile would be toast.

As a example of the opposite - of leaving things to private industry WITHOUT government policy - Most American cities and even some entire states (RI, for instance) had vast and efficient electric trolley lines. Most all of them were ripped up......because of General Motors, who:
"GM got together with Standard Oil of California (now Chevron), Firestone, and other auto-related firms to set up a holding company that bought up trolley lines, dismantled them, and replaced them with buses. “The noisy, foul-smelling buses turned earlier patrons of the high-speed rail system away from public transit and, in effect, sold millions of private automobiles. Largely as a result, Los Angeles today is an ecological wasteland.”

It takes a lot to actually think these issues through. Believe it or not, the best results occur when government works together with industry to do the right thing. Business is only interested in profit....not in cleaner air, better public transit or using less oil. Government has more interest in that, because it realizes those bigger picture issues. For instance, the USA is 5% of the worlds population yet uses over 25% of the energy in the world...much of it IMPORTED from other places.

That is clearly not right nor sustainable. But business doesn't care.
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  #1887 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Will you guys STOP this POLITICAL ECONOMIC CRAP!!!
This is the GLOBAL WARMING THREAD
START YOUR OWN DAMN ENERGY THREAD OR POLITICS THREAD
BUT STOP F$%##ing up this one.
You are kidding, right?
Global warming IS CAUSED BY FOSSIL FUEL USE (Energy, to the uninitiated).

But I do think you are kidding. Next thing you are gonna tell us to keep the 900 pages of the Dem vs. Rep thread on topic!
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  #1888 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2009
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Originally Posted by erps View Post
By the way, hybrid car sales are decreasing since the high gas prices of 2008.
Uh, if you haven't noticed, the entire economy has fallen apart and no one is buying ANY cars!

Part of the reason the economy fell apart....was....HIGH ENERGY PRICES....caused by lack of planning.

Check out this article - the new Prius is making many factories work OVERTIME.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/13/bu...prius.html?hpw
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  #1889 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2009
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CRAIG.... STOP this POLITICAL ECONOMIC CRAP!!!
This is the GLOBAL WARMING THREAD this is about SCIENCE you know NOTHING ABOUT.
START YOUR OWN DAMN ENERGY THREAD OR POLITICS THREAD
BUT STOP F$%##ing up this one.

ANYONE WHO REPLIES TO THE TROLL IS AN IDIOT.

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Last edited by camaraderie : 06-22-2009 at 11:21 PM.
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  #1890 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2009
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Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
ANYONE WHO REPLIES TO THE TROLL IS AN IDIOT.
So, if I understand you correctly, if someone was to tell the ***** ( not allowed to use the word troll ) that the reason solar panels are being made in China & India then imported to the USA ( at elevated costs ) was due to the EPA's recent restriction on material used in solar panels made here in Ca. and elsewhere in the US and not the "oil boys" as was reported in the Weekly World News ( right below the "Aliens Probed Gore for inconvenient truths and die laughing " article), then that person would be an idiot ???
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