Global Warming Debate

[saildork]

Originally Posted by wind_magic

My Physics teacher a few years later was totally convinced then that carbon dioxide was ruining the world, and he was just as much of an activist, there were plenty of activists teaching in the public school system then, and we have inherited their common beliefs about the world through the children who were in school at the time, and now those kids are old enough to influence politics and move those agendas forward, to act on beliefs they take for granted because they were learned at an impressionable age from the passionate young teachers of the time.

How many political "mission accomplished" speeches start with the words, "It's taken us 30 years of hard work to realize this day ...."

The intellectual dishonesty of those who should know better and still push their political agenda is absolutely stunning! If your physics teacher actually had a degree in physics, he could not possibly have concluded that carbon dioxide was ruining the world. The laws of physics don't change, no matter how impassioned our pleas may be.

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by saildork

The intellectual dishonesty of those who should know better and still push their political agenda is absolutely stunning! If your physics teacher actually had a degree in physics, he could not possibly have concluded that carbon dioxide was ruining the world. The laws of physics don't change, no matter how impassioned our pleas may be.

That is, of course, my whole point.

Think back to around the 6th to 9th grades and try to focus on the few teachers you had who were saying the following basic points about what was going on around you, try to remember how they told you this ...

1) Everything that you have been taught up until you entered my class is wrong.
2) Believing the revolutionary stuff I'm about to teach you puts you into an elite group of people who are "in the know", it makes your politics special, etc.
3) There isn't much evidence for what I'm getting ready to tell you, but there was a woman in Greece who's second cousin's husband's daughter by his first marriage wrote this now forgotten book with the most amazing theories in it ...
4) Now, go forth my young soldiers and don't be mislead by everything you see around you (i.e. reality), because it is a veil "they" have put over your eyes to keep you from seeing "the truth"(tm).
5) Your parents are well intentioned, but they don't really understand what is going on in the modern world ...
Etc, etc ...

All that non-sense ends up being politics 30 years later for a certain class of people - the smartest of the bunch figure out later that their 6th grade teacher didn't give up a job building NASA spacecraft to come and teach their dumb ass, so they are able to get past it, but there are plenty of impressionable kids who go through life thinking all that dime store science and politics is actually the truth.

[ssneade]

coolest june in arizona since 1913. funny, it coincides with the last time there was little or no solar activity on the suns surface.

the noaa temperature monitoring stations have been proven to be unreliable. purposely located in areas that would give inaccurate readings.

co2 levels were higher in the 1930's than today.

ice caps on mars receding at the same rate as our own? who do we blame for that?

people in new england hotter than hell 'cause they can't win an argument may be some of the reason for their dilemma.

look to the sun for your answer, my boys. the sun.....

[ssneade]

ahh, craig . it seems i've hurt your feelings. my sincere apologies. but, if you had enough trolls wetting themselves at the same time, would that not cause an increase in sea level?

sorry i'm not a great thinker such as yourself. i'm just a simple man with simple ideas who could for damn sure take care of himself in any crisis. financial, political, economic, environmental, i don't care. i can take care of my own. could you?

to me, this whole gw nonsense has one and only one purpose; world wealth distribution. i'm not buying it.......

[denby]

Originally Posted by ssneade

coolest june in arizona since 1913. funny, it coincides with the last time there was little or no solar activity on the suns surface.

the noaa temperature monitoring stations have been proven to be unreliable. purposely located in areas that would give inaccurate readings.

co2 levels were higher in the 1930's than today.

ice caps on mars receding at the same rate as our own? who do we blame for that?

people in new england hotter than hell 'cause they can't win an argument may be some of the reason for their dilemma.

look to the sun for your answer, my boys. the sun.....

The sun? Do you think?
There is no money in the sun. But plenty of money for manbearpig.

[JohnRPollard]

Back on-topic:

CBO: Climate Bill to Cost Average Consumer $175 a Year

[craigimass]

Originally Posted by ssneade

a. i'm just a simple man with simple ideas

You are certainly right about that!

But being as I am proficient in numerous trades, both physical and mental, I don't have much to worry about.....life has been very, very good to me...and, yes, I lived in a tent in the woods for three years (with wife - and even first child), without credit cards until after I was 30, etc....so could certainly live at 1/10 the level I do now with no problem. I'm a very simple man too - why else would my favorite foods be popcorn, bagels and pancakes - and pizza?

As to the estimated $175 that something might cost us - answer me this - about how much did the uptick in oil prices last year cost the average family? Let me hazard a guess based on the Northeast.....

Heating - 1000 gallons of fuel oil
Was $2,000 - last winter - $3500 or more.
Gasoline - family - 1000 gallons in the year at $3.50 instead of $2.00

Those two add up to $3,000 FOR ONE YEAR. Of course, the actual cost for many families was vastly higher because everything from food to trucking to plastics went up to reflect that cost.

So let's put it at $4,000 per family - figuring low. Seems to put $175 for advancing us into the future...to shame!

When deciding the cost of ACTION, reasonable people also figure in the cost of INACTION. So, besides that $4,000 cost per family of the last year, we have to figure all those lost jobs because we didn't move sooner on taking control of our energy situation.

As far as getting too hot in the Northeast - no way! We are having the cloudiest June in 106 years because of Global Warming.....(just kidding, of course).


Oh, shoot....now I'm gonna hear about how energy and oil have nothing to do with Global Warming again.....

If you folks really want to stay on topic, you should have named it "money, money, money, all I care about is money - and my energy and oil as cheaply as possible".....then I would have a hard time debating against you!

[JohnRPollard]

I was not suggesting that $175 was a lot of money. I was merely posting a link to an article that is on-topic.

The gist of the article is that this figure is much lower than the costs that opponents of the pending climate change legislation have claimed.

An opposing view is also presented:

Michael Steel, a spokesman for House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio), said that the CBO analysts "got an unrealistically low number for cost per family because they didn't factor in the millions of American jobs that will move overseas if the United States imposes this tax and our foreign competitors, like China and India, do not. I don't know what color the sky is in a world where that won't happen, but I'm sure you can ask the unicorns."

[camaraderie]

Wanna know WHY the cost is so much reduced from earlier CBO estimates??

They cut the HELL out of the bill to satisfy special interests!! If a coal plant doesn't get capped...there is no cost to the consumer!! AHAHAHA!!! There more than 100 coil/oil power plants that are not even BUILT yet that have been exempted!!
Word games could threaten climate bill - Jeanne Cummings - POLITICO.com

and even more here...from environmentalists!!
Pushback on Waxman-Markey – now is the time for all good citizens to come to the aid of their country « Watts Up With That?

****************

No. I’m sorry, but the first question everyone must ask about Waxman-Markey is “Did we really need more than 600 pages to do legislate what needs to be done and isn’t 600 pages of dense text likely to have hidden in it so many loopholes, exceptions, obscure procedures and contrary regulations and guidelines that no one except a high-powered corporate law firm will be able to make total sense of it (and thus be able to use it to their corporate clients benefit).”

For the same reason, to Romm’s chagrin, NASA scientist and Al Gore mentor James Hansen got off the Waxman-Markey bandwagon 553 pages ago. Hansen complained:

Governments are retreating to feckless “cap-and-trade”, a minor tweak to business-as-usual…. The 648-page cap-and-trade monstrosity that is being foisted on the U.S. Congress provides the answer. Not a single Congressperson has read it. They don’t need to – they just need to add more paragraphs to support their own special interests. By the way, the Congress people do not write most of those paragraphs—they are “suggested” by people in alligator shoes.
************

For the record...I am unalterably opposed to ANY system of cap and trade on carbon dioxide since there is no evidence of man made warming caused by CO2 and no need to spend out money on foolishness. Whether it is $175 a family or $3000 a family or somewhere in between...it is useless and will have NO effect on climate or temperature and will lower our standard of living while making some people rich who broker the cap and trade exchanges.

[poopdeckpappy]

making some people rich who broker the cap and trade exchanges.

boy, is Al gonna be pissed at you

The clean green is the new oily black and there are hundreds of investors waiting to become the countries next multi billionaire and Gore the worlds leading CC broker