Global Warming Debate

[scottyt]

john ( mod ) and erps i just started a new thread on the email hacking in the war room

[wind_magic]

What happened to that thread from a week or few ago where advocates were lecturing us about how we didn't understand how rigorous the academic peer review process was, etc ? Whoever it was explained how you could never get bad science through the process, I'd enjoy hearing their thoughts on all of these recent findings since it seems to refute what they were saying.

[erps]

I was reading some of the comments left by other readers in some of these "hacked email" stories. There were two readers who both related that they did some papers on climate change in some advanced college work and had come up with some data and conclusions that did not support the global warming theory. The one reader said his professor gave him an "F" and refused to look at the work. This particular reader seemed to feel somewhat vindicated that there was evidence of "suppression" in the hacked emails. No way to verify the veracity of the reader's comments. Just thought it was interesting.

[Architeuthis]

Originally Posted by erps

I just posted a link to the U.K. article on another forum. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I'll predict now how it will play out.

Those of us interested in the science were already aware of the issues being raised by the release of this information. For us it is merely more proof and we hope the mainstream media picks up on it but that isn't how it has worked in the past.

Way back in the 1990's we all saw how Nature treated a peer review of the Hockey Stick. That showed everybody that wanted to know that this was more political than science.

Science often is political but normally the science wins out, the truth is discovered, reported and science moves forward. Not so in this Global Warming discussion, the media has played the story hard, the science community has been forced into line and real science has been ignored. The hockey stick example was just an old example, there are many more in the decade since. (if you really need reminders of them then you haven't been paying attention).

So while Climategate proves beyond any doubt that there are serious issues as to how the science is being manipulated, how the science process of peer review has been undermined, and how politics and megamoney is driving the Global Warming most people are going to ignore it.

Facts and reality have never had much of a role to play in this debate.

I suspect that a few people will be fired, the media will for the most part present this as a one off, downplay the implications, and like the Hockey Stick scam, Climategate will be there for everyone to see but few will want to look.

Other countries will continue to demand the West give them money and trade advantages, we will be stuck with the carbon taxes and the political movement will continue on for many years.

I do hope that people slowly start to wake up but we all know how slow that process can be, particularly with the trillions of $$$ that are at stake.

[ssneade]

gw is economic terrorism, not much else.......

[NICHOLSON58]

they have been drinking the KoolAid and stuffing it down our children's throats as though it is religion. All decenters are to burned at the stake. Welcome to the middle ages. The sky is falling.

We are faced now with two or more generations of brain-washed people who will not even question the line of lies the've been given.

[AdamLein]

On the topic of "making adjustments to the data":

Uh, oh – raw data in New Zealand tells a different story than the “official” one. « Watts Up With That?

I wonder whether this sort of thing will be popping up in other labs as well.

[jrd22]

I sent a news story report to both CNN and MSNBC informing them about Climategate - they have apparently missed it
The British papers are taking it seriously, most continue to have front page headlines. Here is an excerpt from the "Telegraph" - this is getting interesting.

An email sent by one of Prof Jones's colleagues said: "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't."
Prof Jones, whose department has for years refused to release its raw data on temperatures, wrote another email in which he said sceptics "have been after the CRU station data for years. If they ever hear there is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I'll delete the file rather than send it to anyone". By chance, he now admits he has "accidentally" deleted some of the raw data.
Another message said the CRU's method of collating data "renders the station counts totally meaningless... so, we can have a proper result, but only by including a load of garbage!"
Prof Jones, who at first refused to confirm even that the emails were genuine, finally issued a statement on Wednesday, in which he said: "My colleagues and I accept that some of the published emails do not read well." On that point, at least, no one is likely to argue with him.
Although Prof Jones is not what you could call a household name (though he soon might be) he is, without doubt, one of the world's most influential proponents of the theory of man-made global warming.
The CRU has the largest archive of global temperature data in the world, and its research formed the basis of the United Nations' key document on global warming, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report of 2007.
But Prof Jones has been embroiled in controversy before. Three years ago, a report commissioned by the US House of Representatives energy and commerce committee claimed that a clique of just 43 scientists, including Prof Jones and one of his CRU colleagues, was stifling open debate on climate change.
Little wonder, then, that climate change deniers are hailing the emails as final proof that global warming is nothing more than a hoax which is being covered up by governments who have themselves been duped.

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by jrd22

Little wonder, then, that climate change deniers are hailing the emails as final proof that global warming is nothing more than a hoax which is being covered up by governments who have themselves been duped.

The media isn't going to go out and talk down global warming either, how many times have you turned on CNN and heard that the cause of this or that is "global warming" ? The media bought it hook, line, and sinker too. CNN especially.

[irwin325cc]

Any tonic Al?