Global Warming Debate

[cardiacpaul]

" and that 3 credit credit mail order course on the "grassy knoll" theory (I think I've got the certificate for that one around here somewhere), "

Oh, crap, thanks for ruinin' it for me... Every November I head downtown and scatter old shell casings just to keep the whack-jobs wound up.

[poopdeckpappy]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Idiens,
Scientists cannot figure out if the carbon emissions are causing the warming, or the warming is causing increased carbon emissions. One is easier to blame than the other.(g)

I read that as this climate is warming naturally, it exposes millions of acres of premafrost, as that premafrost thaws it releases more CO2, which in turn adds to the greenhouse which in turns leds to more premafrost thawing out, and so on and so on

I wish they would stop with the blame game already and focus on adaption


or not

[camaraderie]

"I wish they would stop with the blame game already and focus on adaption"

I'm workin on it...
(G)

[RAGNAR]

zzzz

[Idiens]

I think you miss the point entirely.

Individuals can be noble/responsible/stupid (call it what you will) and reduce their (so called) carbon footprint by, for example, riding a bicycle rather than a SUV to work, switching of all power including standby, (etc.). It will not make a significant difference because individuals, even multiplied by their numbers, do not contribute so much. Industry, like the oil industry with its burn-off tactic, generate far more. Now if you are an individual with your own oil production facilities, maybe you can help here.

But I agree with you that this is a new religion at work.

As to which religion you believe in, pro- or anti- CO2, it doesn't matter, because your masters have decided to extract more money from you for their war-on-global-warming. Have you not noticed, even GWB is calling international meetings to discuss the problem. He assumes (or knows) that CO2 is to blame. (He would invade, if he found out where CO2 is hiding.)

Your masters may give you a bit of choice to show how democratic they are. You can choose between higher gas prices, spending your cash on carbon offsets (or rip-offs), paying more to travel, paying more taxes to pay farmers to grow even more corn and to compensate industry for having to reduce its CO2 emissions.

If your masters take on a green tinge, then expect to be made to suffer for their righteousness.

[Idiens]

Originally Posted by poopdeckpappy

I read that as this climate is warming naturally, it exposes millions of acres of premafrost, as that premafrost thaws it releases more CO2, which in turn adds to the greenhouse which in turns leds to more premafrost thawing out, and so on and so on

It's really all about cosmic rays. If there are sufficient super novas generating cosmic rays, then the Earth's cloud cover increases, which reflects the Sun's energy away and cools us down. Not enough, then fewer clouds, and we heat up.

ScienceDaily: Cosmic Rays Linked To Global Warming

When it rains in the Gobi desert, chalk gets washed out releasing CO2 in huge quantities. Mostly the Himalayas stop it raining in the Gobi.
Argentinean bovine gas production units are a major source of green house gases, second only to CFK (remember that one).

Disagreement about the reason will not stop oil prices and taxes increasing.

[ReverendMike]

The science has been corupted (on both sides) by $, and History and Poly Sci majors are making 'science'-based decisions. This won't end well....

[RAGNAR]

zzzz

[sailaway21]

I'm tellin' you guys, ya gotta turn on the radio. Forget TV and the internet, radio hasn't been this funny since George Burns and Gracie Allen.

Today on NPR, I'm not sure if it was from the Havana studio or D.C., they had these three eco-weenies on talking about GW. Aside from some of the callers beating them about the head and shoulders on the "science", the funniest part was the interviewer's questions-she wasn't bad. The three "experts" had just spent twenty minutes explaining how government, and only government, must do something and that, it must be mandatory for all citizens. In the meantime we could all do our part by, the usual, XYZ to conserve energy. So the interviewer started asking questions about what they, individually, were doing. One woman, who not 2 minutes before was advocating that we should switch our household lighting to LEDs asap, admitted that she had just recently had picked up some of those flourescent energy saver bulbs, but hadn't got them all installed yet. (This is clearly evidence that NOT shopping at Wal-Mart rots the cerebral coretex. Every hillbilly who shops at Wal-Mart has got his whole trailer lit up with those things. I'm reasonably confident our "expert" is not a Wal-Mart shopper.) Then, the other one, who admits to driving like a 1990 Chevy Caprice, 0 mpg, is thinking about installing energy efficient windows. Jesus Wept. That's where I lost it. Is there anybody north of Norfolk who DID'NT take advantage of the energy tax crediits of the last 25 years? Except this woman? Everybody I know has about 2 feet of insulation in their attic, 'cause the state regulated energy companies went around repeatedly and did "free energy analysis" on their homes, and was quite happy to let the Feds pay for a good portion of the install.

Nuclear energy got short shrift from the "experts" because of problems with "permitting" Yucca Mountain for the waste disposal. I thought, "ok, let me get this straight. You want to legislate low emission cars, curtail airline travel, mandate LED lighting for the home, strengthen emissions standards via legislation on coal plants down to lawnmowers and you're talking doing it in a country with the political environment that cannot get approved the waste disposal site for the least polluting form of energy production we know of, a site they've studied for over 20 years?" Not a one of these coconuts even owned so much as a damn Prius. Yet, they were all three quite ready to legislate the US economy back to 1950! And the coup de grace was that they couldn't stop talking about Yurrup, hereafter referred to as "our betters". They kept mentioning Yurrup and Kyoto, ignoring the fact that Yurrup has not made an inch of progress on meeting their Kyoto goals. Their one concession to reality was that the Swedes and Norwegians were finding the transportation issues difficult. The rest of the time was spent on how Yurrup was doing better on transportation than the yokels across the pond. It never occurred to them that the two countries with anything even resembling the type of transportation we need in the US, were the ones having trouble cutting down on vehicular traffic. The fact that Yurrup has adopted nuclear power more readily than the US went unmentioned.

I'm pretty sure this was on the Diane Rheim show, which airs 10-12am est, and you could probably download it or something. With all that tax money they've got I'm sure it's somehow available on-line. Trust me, Bill Cosby's got nothin' on these people.

[Idiens]

Look Sailaway, we are trying to catch up on the US SUV population density over here. Eco friendly cars may get a big tax break, but nobody wants them, it's their last chance to buy a gas-guzzler before they get banned by the greens. Hummers are becoming particularly popular.
Kyoto is just a farce, industry gets handed huge free carbon credits by government, far more than they need, so they can sell the extra back into the market, make a profit and do damn all about cleaning up their act. The EC tried putting emission limits on cars some time in the future, but Germany persuaded them to make the limits suitable for a heavy SUV towing yachts uphill. The difference over here is that even the politicians have worked out that GW is a good way of making money and adding fear factor to control population.
It has taken the oil industry a little longer in the US to work out how they can make even more money out of GW and tell your government what to do. But it looks like they have made it. Soon you will be allowed even more mucho-macho-machines and encouragement to use them. Only the gas price will be a tiny bit more (plus a few extra environmentally friendly taxes), power prices will see a hike too. You will have extra green taxes on your airline tickets to offset your carbon footprint and make some company planting trees in their fast growing bank accounts happy.