Global Warming Debate

[PBzeer]

Mr Hansen is not only politically motivated, he is unabashedly so.

[mtboat]

In my first week of weather tech school I learned that co2 (Al Gores favorite "greenhouse" gas), follows temp. increase. Co2 does not cause warming. Warming causes co2. And the lag time between temp. rise and co2 rise is about 600 years. The main cause of any warming on this planet is the sun. The main emitter of co2 is the oceans. The only "science" to say otherwise is from the IPCC. Approximatly seven hundred researchers quit the IPCC over the shoddy science being promoted, including the lead writer of the report. At thise time several people had to sue to get their name removed. And lastly, Robert Coleman the founder of the weather channel in the news last week declaring: "Global warming is the biggest scam of all time".

[majorm]

mtboat- you are correct that historically CO2 rose in response to natural warming cycles related to variations in the earths orbit. However, CO2 does amplify the effect of the natural warming cycles by acting as a greenhouse gas.

Today, instead of the natural cycle of warming followed by rising CO2, warming is being initiated by rising CO2. The warming effect of CO2 is the same in both instances, but the difference is the source of the CO2.

That is why the current situation is not the result of normal cycles.

[camaraderie]

Hansen is not only politically/environmentaly biased but he manipulates data to his own purposes and the claim that his algorithms adjust for bad data in the climate stations is actually wrong and being proven more wrong every day by Mr. Watts and the www.surfacestations.org project.
When you maniipulate the temperature records through an algorithm that you then refuse for many months to share with other scientists...and then are FORCED to disclose the algorithm when someone reverse-engineers it to find the errors...and then the errors prove to be ones that reinforce your point of view...and without them the data shows higher temps in the 20's and 30's and lower temps in the present...I think it is fair to assume that anything coming out of his mouth must be taken as a political statement rather than one of a scientist.

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

[xort]

Cam
That can't be the truth, Hansen isn't paid by the oil companies but EVERY denier is on the dole of the oil companies. It can't be true. It can't be true. It can't be true. It can't be true. it can't be true.

BTW, how much are YOU getting for doing the oil compainies bidding? Huh? Trading in for an RV, eh? We can put 2 & 2 together!!!

[primerate84]

I know this global warming thing has been beaten to death in this thread, but one item that I will always remember occured after the fall of communism in the early 90s. Gorbachev was out of office in Russia and he was being interviewed by the BBC (I think). He was asked what he planned on doing now that he was out of politics, and his statement was to be heavily involved in environmental causes because that is the last way capitalism can be defeated. (A true communist to the end.) When you see some of the extreme things that are imposed on business with regard to the environment, you see how it could get so expensive to comply that the most logical economic decision would be to shut down. (A capitalist defeat.) A good propaganda machine can influence public opinion and I just think the whole global warming is the "panic du jour", just like global cooling was in the 70s. Communism is alive and well, just wearing a different suit.

[majorm]

Cam- if you don't believe the data showing rising temperatures, how do you explain the ever decreasing size of the polar ice cap and other glaciers? What about other studies demonstrating changes in the timing of spring (bird migration patterns, etc)?

[PBzeer]

Since this seems to need repeating every other page or so ......

Climate is not static, it is a dynamic force, which is subject to continual change whether mankind occupies the planet or not.

[MangoTango1]

Did Cavemen end the last ice-age? No. Why did AlGore get a 'peace' prize for whipping up hysteria about the weather? Liberal Politics. Is the planet getting warmer? I don't know but it sure beats getting colder.

[mtboat]

polar ice charts and models I'v seen , suggest the current recession of polar ice is still within the historic ebb end flow. And how is it that co2 used to follow warming, but now drives it? And in the whole of this is a couple of more things. Solar cycles and volcanic action. As a weather observer for the FAA and National Weather Service, we took surface temperature readings hourly, as well as balloons for upper level temp's. Satellites take the temperature in the Troposphere. Outside of the +/- errors in the models I haven't seen this warming except on a local basis. Another factor missed is heat island effect. Most of the data at ground level is taken from a machine at airports called ASOS. Airports in cities,...that are growing,...will show and have higher temps than they used to.