Global Warming Debate

[camaraderie]

Ummm...can we keep this thing somewhat on the warming topic?

[artbyjody]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Jody...your de-buttal on tree rings was great...just the sort of stuff we need to discuss. Did you happen to read the beginning of the article you linked to where the tree ring data was being used to rebut the notion of the midieval warming period that "deniers" claim? Inconvenient to GW's if humans actually lived in warmer times without a problem. You see...THAT tree ring data was used in the UN's IPCC report to justify a rising global temperature and knock down the midieval warming theory. SO...choice...tree ring data IS or IS NOT useful in describing past climate. I will be happy to agree with you that it is NOT if you want to throw out that part of the UN's justification of warming and Al Gore's film piece on it.

Trust me I really do not care about Al Gore's statistics - however, the overall message is there and if it had not raised such a stink - we'd all actually be far less educated over the matter nor willing to google for hours on end to find "the truth in between"....Interestingly enough that chart used in the IPCC study was pulled last year on the grounds of scientific outcry that it did NOT take in account the reasons mentioned in my last post on this matter. Hence why I used it as a debuttal...the one you listed -it may be flawed There is data there - but it is not CONCLUSIVE to GW specifically - it is only a piece of data that alone does not stand to support GW, only provides a indicator...



Now if we are only talking tracking CO2 and not the other 3 common GHGs, scientists are now analyzing fossils of plants. The CO2 cells within the plant leaf become bigger and less numerous when there is a high CO2 content and more numereous and less in size when CO2 is not as abundant. However, even with this I think may be inaccurate as it may not account for other conditions that the plant may be going through such as high heat, etc (basically the same stuff that quantifies the tree ring can not necessarily be used soley to say hey "this happened")..but scientists think it is a more fail-proof method...

Interesting read: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...arbonemissions

As for the mini Ice Age - that has been determined to be caused by a sunspot that collapsed making the sun cooler. The medieval heat wave is believed caused by huge lava eruption in siberia...

I'll take a look at the link later - think I am kinda globalled out from watching the shows all day on the History Channel and doing research

[bestfriend]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

I've considered alternatives to the energy I use now but the efficiency and capital costs do not justify them at this point. Right now I have a far better chance of buying that Flicka I want if I keep heating with gas than if I erect a wind turbine in my front yard and fill my basement with storage batteries. And it's all a moot point because neither one of those two things is going to happen before my wife get's kitchen cabinets and her roast the whole cow at once oven in the house. (g)

Now that was funny.

I follow you with the subsidies and such. You lose me on the whole market run economy and I am not sure why. It might be my limited scope of view, or that my college economics doesn't match up with what I see in the world today. The whole supply/demand price thing just isn't the way they taught. They don't talk about greed in the textbook, its not part of the equation. To me, the market based economy doesn't seem to be working either. I think you're gonna have to school me over a beer on friday.

[bestfriend]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Ummm...can we keep this thing somewhat on the warming topic?

Hey, we're talking solutions while you can't see the forest for the trees. get it? cause you're talking about trees....and......rings.....and.....oh nevermind.

[sailaway21]

BF,
He got that way in the Solar World thread too. The older he get's the less tolerant he is of any distractions. Mrs C wouldn't dream of touching the radio while he's driving that R/V. (g)

[bestfriend]

Sleep driving to NPR no doubt.

[chucklesR]

The real problem I have here folks is that for 10 additional seconds of research every single 'PROOF" of GW can be refuted by someone saying they have a different "PROOF'.
Why doesn't anyone else take the extra 10 seconds.
I went to google, typed in " tree ring data showing no global warming"
and clicked the first link:
http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO...3/N13/EDIT.jsp

although I personally preferred this one:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163999,00.html

Ya'll really think a scientist can differentiate a temperature change of .7 degrees between now and 1250 years ago?

How many thermometers were around in 1000 A.D. and how many of them were marked in 1/10's of a degree as opposed to know when they all still are not.

Get real.

They can't do it today.

We don't know enough to make a decision, we do know enough to not make a decision. Choose wisely.

[PBzeer]

Chuckles - since when did any politican worry about facts? And make no doubt about it, GW is political.

[CKDK08]

I can't remember who said it. "Don't confuse me with facts, My mind is made up"

[chucklesR]

PB, more than just political, it's about fearmongering, greed and power.