Democrats versus Republicans

[sailaway21]

Halliburton; just one more thing sck5 knows nothing about. Why would Halliburton have no bid contracts under the Clinton and Bush administrations? Why would Congress enter into a no-bid contract with a company? Congress does control the purse. Fifteen minutes of research would answer these questions but then that's not as fun as talking or posting in bites more suitable for a bumper sticker.

sck5 is doing an admirable job of revealing the core of the Obama base of support. The use of the words "smart" or "educated" should probably be considered inadvertent to any points being made. There were points, were there not? (g)

[sailaway21]

Mr. George Will, Conservative, has some questions for Mr. John McCain, Populist. George F. Will: Questions for John McCain | Newsweek Voices - George F. Will | Newsweek.com

[camaraderie]

Mr. Will is entirely correct...I find McCain increasingly distasteful in his views and his lack of a philosophically grounded approach to the issues. Unfortunately...I can't pull the lever for Bob Barr or Barack either and if I stay home it is helping them. Bummer!

[wind_magic]

It's not looking good for the poor pitiful deficit or the national debt, that's for sure. None of these folks are really interested in cutting spending, they just differ on what they want to spend money on. That is - BORROW and spend on. It used to be that candidates at least paid lip service to the debt, they'd at least say they were going to reduce the deficit, even if they didn't dare say they would actually reverse the deficit and reduce the actual debt. Now they don't even talk about reducing the deficit, it's weird, like alice in wonderland .. and apparently some kind of a race to the bottom where everybody dog piles on top of the last dollar trying to grab it before the world ends.

Lower spending. Reduced entitlements. Less pork. No more social engineering projects. No more tax cuts. No more unfunded wars. Stop talking about universal health care when we can't pay for the stuff we already fund. Let's have some fiscal responsibility! Some restraint! We need a lot less Gee Whiz and a lot more basic discipline.

I'm just glad pawn shops don't deal in big things like aircraft carriers or we'd be in real trouble.

Edit ...

Each of us owes approximately 30k$us on the national debt. I would like to see a candidate tell us their plan for paying it off and be candid about how much interest each and every one of us in America is paying on that debt. Maybe someone could come up with a plan to pay it off if we were honest about what has to be done - something short of just sending every person in the United States a bill for 30k$us.

Edit #2 ...

Maybe we could get the debt paid off if politicians would just be honest (I know, I'm dreaming). I think the American people would even be willing to pay higher taxes if we KNEW that the extra money was reducing the debt burden and that it would, in the end, help us pay less in interest. Let me say it again - if every American could actually trust Washington D.C. to charge them an extra 1k$us/year in taxes I think we'd pay it if we KNEW WITHOUT A DOUBT that it would reduce the national debt by 1/30th and that our taxes would get reduced by the amount of interest we would be saving on the national debt. That's how normal people get out of debt, they start paying it down. It ain't sexy but it works. Problem is NOBODY in their right mind would believe that Washington D.C. politicians would actually do it - sure, they'd raise the tax by 1k$us/year, they'd love that, but then they'd just spend it on something else we don't need instead of paying the debt like they should be doing. How do we know they'd waste it ? Because that's what they say they are going to do every time they open their mouths! All we have to do is believe what they are saying they are going to do!

[chucklesR]

Originally Posted by wind_magic

Maybe we could get the debt paid off if politicians would just be honest (I know, I'm dreaming). I think the American people would even be willing to pay higher taxes if we KNEW that the extra money was reducing the debt burden and that it would, in the end, help us pay less in interest. Let me say it again - if every American could actually trust Washington D.C. to charge them an extra 1k$us/year in taxes I think we'd pay it if we KNEW WITHOUT A DOUBT that it would reduce the national debt by 1/30th and that our taxes would get reduced by the amount of interest we would be saving on the national debt.

Sadly, that's not the way it works, you see guys like SCK (liberal 'right' thinking people) would make sure that I paid 30k a year, and that most 'poor' folks paid nothing or very very little.
I, for one, know damn well the money would not go to debt reduction, and for two know that the excessive spending and fiscal lack of responsibility was wasted primarily on 'entitlements' and 'social justice' and all manner of Robin Hood like schemes - and therefore would not pay.

Ob boy get's elected and raises my taxes I will indeed pay a accountant to find ways to reduce my tax load before I pay more taxes. I might even take a 3-4 month unpaid vacation every year. I am not working for America, I gave at the altar of military service, future donations are (dare I say it, yes I do) unfair.
There SCK I said it, me paying taxes is manisfestly unfair. I want social justice.

[sck5]

"me paying taxes is manisfestly unfair."

you ARE a republican! Hey how do you suppose they pay for the ATON's you sail by down there? the Coast Guard? the National Weather Service? Just because the politicians piss away buckets of money doesnt mean there arent things that need to be paid for. And if you want to find monumental waste, check out the Iraq War. That is the king of all wasteful projects.

Who should pay the taxes? You are right that I think they should raise taxes on rich people. I call rich anyone over 250k/yr. and really rich anyone over a million. If you are that rich, Chuck, then you shouldnt complain because America has allowed you to do very well and giving some back IS social justice. If you arent that rich then Obama has already said your taxes arent going up so why complain?

On smart vs. education. There is a big difference. Just look at W if you need an illustration.

Sailaway you are wrong if you think Congress is who gave Halliburton the nobid contracts. That was the Administration. Sure, Congress probably could cut them off and didnt but the contracts came from the admin. in the first place.

[chucklesR]

I don't specifically discuss my income on public forums, it's crude and rude (my wife says so).

In today's world 250k a year (for a couple) in America is not rich. It's upper middle class. By the time all the taxes are taken out of 250k you don't have a heck of alot left.
In round numbers:
250k
-70 fed (28%, if stupid enough to get caught there)
-11 state (6%)
-19 Soc Sec (7.6% employee share)
-8 Medicare (2.9% employee share)

That's just the payroll deductions

That's 108k per year off the top of the 250k. That's not taking into account local sales taxes (6 percent) etc., etc.,

Essentially, one of the people in that hypothetical couple is working to pay taxes so liberals can spend it on people that don't have jobs, don't want jobs, and just want to lay around and bitch about rich people.

SCK, that seem right to you, almost half in taxes, and it's okay because they are 'rich'?

[Sailormon6]

This defeatist, sour grapes talk among Republicans who aren't satisfied with Senator McCain is silly. Look around you. Reach out and touch the table in front of you. Touch the wall. If you fantasize that you can walk through that wall, you'll just bump into it. That's the real world that you have to live with. Likewise, Sen. McCain is your Republican candidate for President. That's also the real world you have to live with. If you vote for anyone other than him, you're helping Barack Obama get elected President. That's another part of your real world. In your fantasy world, you can vote for Bob Barr, or some other interloper, and, if you think you're making a statement or doing anything meaningful, you're only kidding yourself.

In your fantasy world, you might think Sen. McCain is going to ruin this country, but in my lifetime, in the real world, the only two presidents who have come close to ruining it were Pres. Lyndon Johnson and Pres. Jimmy Carter, and the country was so strong that it bounced back from both of them. In the real world, this country is capable of surviving a John McCain. The question you have to ask yourselves is, how much damage can Barack Obama do? In the real world, those are your only choices - Barack Obama or John McCain.

The Democrats are probably going to heal the wounds left by their quarrelsome primary election, and we'd better get busy doing the same thing.

[erps]

Re: Differences between Democrats and Republicans

Earlier in the discussion, I wondered why it seemed that people moved more towards the conservative side of the spectrum as they got older (at least from my perspective) Sck5 gave a partial explanation that made sense to me, that as you get older, your net worth goes up and you become a little more protective of it.

Also as pointed out a few times, the Democrat vs. Republican thing also appears to be more of a country vs. city thing. Why do you suppose that is? My gut feeling is that country folk tend to be more self sufficient than their city cousins and each vote accordingly for their own self interests. Comments?

[US27inKS]

sck5, I saw a poll the other day that showed the relationship between position or job and who they are voting for. The overwhelming number of people who list their postion as CEO will vote for obama. Do you really think that a politician (any politician) would sell out such a powerful segment of his supporters by taxing them to death? Surely the average person who lists their job as CEO falls into your "rich" category. IF they want social justice, they'll give at the office.