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  #2591 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008
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Sck5, You point to the fact that schools are having a harder time getting new funding. I would point out that this is true. It seems to have started a downward slide in the sixties. You could quickly assume that it has to do alot with desegregation, and you would be partly correct. But a quick look at a lot of other rules and laws that have been put in place since the sixties would revill to an even greater degree the damages done by a liberal mentality.

All schools that receive federal funding are bound up by a whole bunch of rules that have turned public schools from being preceived as an asset to the public at large into something more and more preceived as a liability. Every thing from sex ed to free lunches comes at the expense of local control, and increases cost requirements often above and beyond the grant money the schools receive. Don't forget that on top of forcing parents to allow they're children to be taught, by other morals and principals, subjects that are contiversial, but simple things like prayer or bible studies have been largly banned outright.

The results of these policies were pretty predictable. The adverage person now feels less pride and has less desire to fund or help the local school system. In fact another democrat policy from the era pretty much killed private donations to the public school system. In they're attemps to make every body equal, they passed laws in most states that made any donation given to a school be split up through out the district or through out the state. This effected my elementary school. It had been rutine for the nuke plant to include large donations to the local schools in they're contract negotiations. After the law took effect the local union dropped that from the table. They no longer saw a personal benefit from it. Demanded more pay instead.

The same is true for road construction and a lot of other government projects. I remember reading about a interstate running through Memphis that had already hit 24 million a mile thanks to repeated demands for impact studies and assistance for those with lower incomes that were being forced out of they're apartments. This of course had been in the middle of on going legal battles with every envionmental group and poor peoples group and other groups that seemed to show up over everything. It had been an ongoig project for almost twenty years when I heard about it. The funny thing is that it was less then ten miles of road if memory serves.

Thats become the nature of the beast. More and more is stripped from local control and as such becomes all about politics rather then getting stuff done. Taking more of my money to force me to let you guys teach my child that gay is ok, or buddism is about love but christians are horrable, or lets focus on being ok with our answers rather then knowing how to multiply fractions is not going to happen with out a fight for every single penny.
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  #2592 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008
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Originally Posted by danjarch View Post
The results of these policies were pretty predictable. The adverage person now feels less pride and has less desire to fund or help the local school system. In fact another democrat policy from the era pretty much killed private donations to the public school system. In they're attemps to make every body equal, they passed laws in most states that made any donation given to a school be split up through out the district or through out the state. This effected my elementary school. It had been rutine for the nuke plant to include large donations to the local schools in they're contract negotiations. After the law took effect the local union dropped that from the table. They no longer saw a personal benefit from it. Demanded more pay instead.
That's a great story. I often hear decriers of the notion of "incentive" deny that such things happen, but they do indeed -- when people are forced to provide for others in their community, they no longer see the incentive in working hard to provide in ways that are effective and that they can be proud of.

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Thats become the nature of the beast. More and more is stripped from local control and as such becomes all about politics rather then getting stuff done. Taking more of my money to force me to let you guys teach my child that gay is ok, or buddism is about love but christians are horrable, or lets focus on being ok with our answers rather then knowing how to multiply fractions is not going to happen with out a fight for every single penny.
Well-said. Using the public school system as a defense of high taxation and government spending is the most preposterous example yet.

Right now I'm resisting the urge to go on a rant about public post-secondary education. I've been watching my university begging for the funds it needs to play catchup with the economy for years, and people are finally starting to realize that it's a scam. Maybe that means there's hope?
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  #2593 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008
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One of the hardest things to deal with, is the fact that the current state of affairs in the US, is the result of years and years of incremental government encroachment. And it will take as much, if not more time, to get it back to what it should be.
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  #2594 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008
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If we can get it back. To many have come to rely on it to some extent and have forgoten how to do for themselves.
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  #2595 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008
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To many have come to rely on it to some extent and have forgoten how to do for themselves.
Tell me, what attracts you to sailing?
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  #2596 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008
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Ya gotta love it

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Originally Posted by Hillary Clinton
"We have gone toe-to-toe in this hard-fought primary, but today and every day going forward we stand shoulder-to-shoulder for the ideals we share and the values we cherish," she said.


Would that be the ideals and values they hold this week, or next week? Or perhaps, next month? Inquiring minds want to know.
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  #2597 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008
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High School kids have to pass a test to graduate. We ought to have candidates take some sort of a test battery that shows whether they're smart, ethical and their political philosophy. Post the results and vote the one you think has the best scores to run the country. Some how limit the amount of money it takes to campaign so these guys don't have to sell their soul.
In conclusion erps makes a plea for the system we have now and the actual corruption of the political process. Chuckles goes along with him down the sane familiar dead-end road in the very next post.

Money is freedom of speech in action. That is a statement of fact.

Freedom of speech, constitutionally speaking, is primarily an issue of political speech. If you do not have freedom of political speech any other free speech rights you do possess mean little or nothing. That is because, by very definition, politics and therefore political speech is about those very things which are important to you. If you doubt this, make a list of the five most important things in your life and then examine how government affects each one. If you're thorough in your examination you'll see in the end that government has a dramatic effect on your life and the things you hold most dear. Regardless of whether you regard yourself as a political animal or not, you are one. That you choose not to vote or not to inform yourself on the issues of the day merely means that you are delegating your political power to your neighbor. It does not change the fact that you and politics are inextricably linked. If you're reading this the chances are good that you're not content to be just a passenger on the political train and you'd like to have some say in which direction the train is going to run.

Back to free speech. You have a strong political opinion on an issue. You express it verbally to your friends and family but you are of the view that it such an important issue that you'd like to tell more people. So you take the day off of work and go down to the town square and start talking to everyone who passes by. (btw, you've just made your first acquaintance with the intersection of politics and money-you sacrificed earnings for speech.) After a day in the sun, you come to two conclusions; you did not reach nearly the number of people that you'd hoped for and, with the money you'd have made working, you could have taken out a small ad in the newspaper.

You get thinking about that ad and you realise that, with a little help from some like minded friends, you could take out a full page ad and attract much more attention. You also consider that you and your friends could get the same attention by going down to the court house waving signs and maybe burning a flag or two. But you feel you've got an important and valid issue and you don't want to alienate the rational thinkers you're trying to reach with your opinion by acting like a showboat. Your ad attracts a lot of attention.

One of the people your ad is read by becomes very enthused about your issue and you notice that he is able to articulate that issue very well. About the same time you realise that the best way to accomplish your political goal is to have like-minded individuals in the government. You decide to try to get your friend elected to political office. You soon see how politics, which is free speech in action, and money are inextricably linked. Nobody is going to vote for your buddy if they have not heard his message or met him. It takes money to get the message out and more money to be able to transport your new candidate around. Money is free speech.

But, isn't there too much money in politics? No, there is not nearly enough money in politics. We spend more money advertising the baseball game of the week than we do on political matters. Contrast the amount of money Gillette spends selling razor blades with how much we spend on political advertising. And which is more important; your decision to buy a blade with two cutters or three versus the candidate who may send your son to war?

The folly of the unconstitutional, in my opinion, McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform law is that it took money out of the hands of accountable political parties and put it in the hands of totally unaccountable 527 groups. and it has done nothing to limit campaign spending, as if that were a worthy goal. The only type of campaign finance reform the country needed, or needs, is merely one of full disclosure as to whom is making the contributions and in what amounts.

With full disclosure, you're not left to wonder whom the candidate is in bed with-you can read it right on the disclosure form. Artificially limiting contributions means that, aside from limiting one or another person's free speech rights, you are forcing the money to go underground only to appear later is the hands of some questionable characters and organizations.

Every time you think that there's too much being spent-think about how much you'd be willing to spend so you didn't have to stand out in the rain on that soapbox trying to get your message out.
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  #2598 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008
sailaway21 sailaway21 is offline
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The notion that we spend too little on education is quite hilarious. It's not quite so funny when one compares what we're getting for our dollar. Libs who usually think that Yurrup does everything best should maybe strive for consistency and advocate reducing education spending to European levels.
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  #2599 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008
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In conclusion erps makes a plea for the system we have now and the actual corruption of the political process. Chuckles goes along with him down the sane familiar dead-end road in the very next post.

Money is freedom of speech in action. That is a statement of fact.
Doh! I put my mouth in gear before my brain again. You're right. They're not selling their soul for the campaign money, that's just a symtom. They're selling it directly for votes.
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  #2600 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008
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They're not selling their soul for the campaign money, that's just a symtom. They're selling it directly for votes.
I think the point that sway was (I thought more than adequately) making is that if you believe in your campaign platform, then of course you should "sell your soul" for votes. Sure, if you assume all politicians are by definition evil then obviously it's bad not to have limits on campaign spending. But then hey, we might as well disallow campaigning entirely. If you suspect that maybe out there a good person is running for office, then you must recognize that campaign finance restrictions are restrictions on that person's freedom of speech.

But sailaway said it more compellingly than I did.
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