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02-18-2008
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"Pray tell how you equate actions in the pursuit of dogma, with actions in the pursuit of intelligence of enemy operations?"
Because the actions themselves are identical. It doesnt become OK to do just because your reasons for doing it are different.
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02-18-2008
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SCK...
1.In my view, waterboarding is NOT torture...it is an interrogation technique that lasts for several minutes and causes no physical harm only psychological panic...and it WORKS.
2. What we GAIN is far more important than what we lose. What we gain is AMERICAN lives saved. Proven, sworn testimony to this fact. What we lose is the "good opinion" of those who I could give a damn about when it comes to saving American lives.
3. I would rather terrorists FEAR what will happen to them when captured...than KNOW they don't have to give information.
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 Tayana 52 Ketch
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02-18-2008
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"actions in the pursuit of intelligence of enemy operations"
Oh, and that was the excuse the Japanese used in WW2. Again, nice company.
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02-18-2008
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Wandering Aimlessly
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You need to read the reasons behind why the Sunnis, who had been supporting al-Queda, have now decided to support the US.
And tell me this, what are the boundaries we should place on intelligence gathering that saves American lives?
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John
Ontario 32 - Aria
Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love. JCP
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02-18-2008
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Waterboarding not torture? I give up. If that is where you are coming from then there really is no common ground to find. But you might be interested to know that Mr. Mukasey, our new Attorney General, first defended waterboarding but then said if it were done to HIM he might consider it to be torture.
Also, if you believe that, then you must believe some of those people the US convicted of torture at the end of WW2 were mistakenly convicted. You really think its OK to waterboard US soldiers? Really?
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02-18-2008
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Wandering Aimlessly
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Better yet, tell me how many American lives you would sacrifice to gain the approval of "world opinion"?
__________________
John
Ontario 32 - Aria
Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love. JCP
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02-18-2008
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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You seem to not want to address the notion that it isnt "world opinion" I am trying to please. It is the population our enemies live in and which shelters them and which allows them to operate. Not that world opinion isnt important - Having good allies helped immensely to defeat the communists to take just one example. But the good will of an occupied population is a direct, life saving military asset.
If even one roadside bomb hadnt been planted then maybe my cousin Bobby wouldnt have had half his head blown off. Maybe the guy with him wouldnt be dead. Maybe their driver wouldnt be injured. These are not airy fairy conjectural deaths. THEY ARE REAL ONES. And if maybe just one less person hated our guts this wouldnt have happened.
Not torturing people saves lives. Torturing may make you feel good that you are doing something but in the long run it does our servicemen and women more harm than good.
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02-18-2008
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Wandering Aimlessly
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Obviously, you didn't take my suggestion on why the Sunnis have "changed" sides. Quite simply, it is because of what al-Queda and the other terrorists were doing to them.
Islamic terrorism will not go away just because we are nice to them. They will kill and maim until they either win, or are wiped out. If you don't believe that, then there really is nothing further to discuss.
__________________
John
Ontario 32 - Aria
Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love. JCP
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02-18-2008
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Hey check back up the thread. I am the guy who was disgusted that Bush didnt keep after Osama until we had his head on a pike. You've got nothing on me in that department.
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02-18-2008
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Moderator
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Waterboarding not torture? I give up. If that is where you are coming from then there really is no common ground to find.
You're absolutely right.
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Tayana 52 Ketch
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