tdw... says that this place is a hotbed of Right Wing Wackos...

[PBzeer]

doctom- it basically comes down to one little fact: Politics is full of politicans, and politicans only believe in one thing, their continued occupancy of political office. To that end, they will do whatever they believe is necessary to acheive that.

[Valiente]

Originally Posted by T34C

It is called the RIGHT wing for a reason.

And that reason has to do with the seating plan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-Right_politics

Tell me when you find an economic conservative who isn't a shill for religious extremism and I'll bother to come off the deck to vote for that person.

But I haven't seen one who wasn't essentially a narrow-minded bully (from a pulpit, yet) for a number of decades.

Sailors, obliged as they are, or used to be, to possess a greater amount of self-reliance than the general population, tend to be politically conservative in my experience, but it's the sort of conservatism of the "live and let live" variety, not the "evolution is bad! patriotism is good!" sub-type. And our tendency to actually enjoy farting, cursing, frolicking with the comely crew and the occasional rum-based beverage puts us at odds with the Anti-Fun Leagues who've usurped the name "conservative" and want us all to in fact conform to an illusion.

It's the Taliban by other means, skippers. Avoid.

[Valiente]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

We'd be praying 5 times a day to Mecca if the other wackos had won....

Instead you've got the Ten Commandments in courthouses and "God" on your money and school prayer and myths pushed as science in Kansas.

Please explain how a narrow-minded, bigoted, primitive madrassa in Pakistan is different from a Christian charter school in Georgia when it comes to shaping young minds. Both groups see themselves in a holy war against those infidels who MUST be "shown the true path else go to hell", and both aren't really pro-free speech or democracy, come to think of it.

The citizen is dead. Long live the customer, the client and the special interest group. Me, I'm going sailing.

[PBzeer]

Rather a broad brush you paint with Valiente. Were one to use that reasoning, they would then have to support the zealots of secular humanism, who eschew any sense of responsibility, bow to the altar of global warming (or whatever the current cause de jour is), and think your money is theirs, to redistribute as they feel is appropriate.

It's axiomatic that our choices in politics generally come to the lesser of two evils, as most people with any sense of responsibility and self-suffiiciency want nothing to do with politics.

[JodyKS]

It's just too bad that Rhetoric goes so far that it hurts our country...

[Giulietta]

Originally Posted by Valiente

Instead you've got the Ten Commandments in courthouses and "God" on your money and school prayer and myths pushed as science in Kansas.

But as I see it...that has kept them (US) together as a people for Centuries..there is nothing wrong with that...the Country was founded by those rules, by people believing in those rules...and it worked fine....

Its when the "out side the box" came that it started crumbling...just my opinion...in my Country, when you're there as an outsider...you do it as we do...if you want..if not.... there's the door....and we don't get complaints...we're catholic..the State is not...

Now...I agree the State (the Governement machine) must not have religion, and it does not, if I am not mistaken in the US...

Unlike Islamic Countries where the State IS Islamic...and every one has to be...

[camaraderie]

Valiente..
Please explain how a narrow-minded, bigoted, primitive madrassa in Pakistan is different from a Christian charter school in Georgia when it comes to shaping young minds. Both groups see themselves in a holy war against those infidels who MUST be "shown the true path else go to hell", and both aren't really pro-free speech or democracy, come to think of it.

Well...the thought comes to mind that those Christian schools in GA ain't shaping young minds on how to construct "shaped charges" and blow themselves up for Allah.
As a conservative...I believe in the separation of church and state and do not support "God" in the schools or the teaching of a religious doctrine in science classes. On the other hand...the display of the 10 commandments in a public space or the notation of a "non-demoninational God" on our currency to me is no violation of the constitution but simply a recognition of the heritage of our country and the Judeo-Christian VALUES which led to its' founding and subseuent success. I'd rather my kids be taught those VALUES in school along wth the 3r's than have them taught that there is no "right" or "wrong" unless it is politically incorrect. Sure beats rolling condoms on bananas or reading "My mommy's name is TED" to ten year olds!!

[Giulietta]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Not that I am happy with the alternative...since he's let us conservatives down big time too as did the Republican controlled congress. They were punished last November...but I don't think Barak or Hillary can prevent us from stealing another one in 2008.

The way I see it...if I may...the options you have had recentely, when voting in the US are what one can call Political evolution...you'll all be voting for trees in 10 years!!!

[donrr1]

Its when the "out side the box" came that it started crumbling...just my opinion...in my Country, when you're there as an outsider...you do it as we do...if you want..if not.... there's the door....

The most relavent observation of the 'ill' of America at this time IMO Giu.
There used to be a time when the immigrants to this country wanted to come here to become an 'American' and start a new heritage. Now, for some unknown reason to me, it's ok for America to be made up of so many sub cultures, keep your own language. Throughout history, this accounts for the fall of a civilation.

When people can obtain a drivers license without being able to speak English, I am disgusted. Don't need patriotism????? Go live somewhere else then.

Don

[Valiente]

Originally Posted by Giulietta

But as I see it...that has kept them (US) together as a people for Centuries..there is nothing wrong with that...the Country was founded by those rules, by people believing in those rules...and it worked fine....

Actually, the U.S. was founded by a lot of landowners in love with Enlightment thought who were highly suspicious if not actually antagonistic to religion. Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the U.S. Constitution, saidt "history, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government". He felt that religion had no place in government and that people had an innate moral sense to guide them and did not need religious authorities to impose moralistic rules from above.

There's been a bit of a drift from those principles in the U.S. lately, which is not surprising as most of that country's history is based in a battle between freethinkers and various types of Puritans, all of whom have held at times some completely divergent ideas about economics.

It was Canadian evangelical Christians who pushed hardest for socialized medicine, and in the 19th century, the same evangelicals found Biblical rationales for maintaining slavery. There's no logic to it when religion gets involved, which is why thoughtful people treat it with suspicion.