I'm an ass, and full of crap

[smackdaddy]

Point taken John. I'll stop using the word.

[ckgreenman]

Originally Posted by denby

If C2po started all this then should I slap him around on Monday night or have him buy all the dinners?

Hehehe. why not both

[sailingdog]

How about both.

Originally Posted by denby

If C2po started all this then should I slap him around on Monday night or have him buy all the dinners?

[T34C]

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]


John- There is nothing in that definition that precludes "other legitimate Sailnet members". If the majority of a members posts fit into the troll definition, it's not a personal attack, it's fact. Just as someone can be labeled liberal or conservative by their own words and actions, so too can they be rightfully labeled a troll. Trolls are not just people who signed up recently with the intent of stiring up trouble, some manage to do so where ever they go despite their length of tenure.

[SEMIJim]

Originally Posted by T34C

If the majority of a members posts fit into the troll definition, it's not a personal attack, it's fact. Just as someone can be labeled liberal or conservative by their own words and actions, so too can they be rightfully labeled a troll.

Kinda comparing apples and oranges, there. Many "liberals" are proud of being "liberals." (N.B.: They prefer "progressive," these days.) Many "conservatives" are proud of their political orientation. But few trolls, other than those who are openly trolling for the amusement of all, find being labeled a "troll' a compliment, any more than any other social deviant appreciates their label.

But you are correct on this point: If the majority of an individual's behaviour qualifies as "trollish," you can be pretty sure they're a troll.

Best thing to do is stop feeding the troll. They tend to eventually fade away from starvation. (Sometimes not. But if you're ignoring it, why would you care?) Or, if the troll's presence amuses you: By all means, give it the attention it craves. But don't turn around and bitch about it if you do. That'd be like watering and fertilizing your grass and then complaining about how it's growing so fast .

(Pssst! Talking about the troll in public, even indirectly, feeds it.)

Jim

[xort]

are you a troll if you post off-topic messages in the off-topic forum?

If two negatives make a positive would you be on-topic for posting off-topic in the off-topic forum??

[camaraderie]

T34...if a majority of sailnetters feel a members posts qualify him as an idiot...can we then call him an idiot? Same thing. An insult. A personal attack.

[smackdaddy]

Denby - okay, I'll try to discuss this civilly and show you some examples of what I mean. Here is what Chuckles said this thread is about...

Originally Posted by chucklesR

The AFOC thread IS OFF topic, not meant to be on topic and is specifically where people go to razz one another. Read the opening post.

If this were really all this thread were about, there'd be no problem. I certainly wouldn't care. Razz ONE ANOTHER all you want. But that's not the case. Just a few posts later:

Originally Posted by TxLnghrn

self-proclaimed "Captain" on the site. At least this one isn't trying to get a bunk mate yet. He seems to be here just to boost the hits on his blog. This should be fun to watch. Rep to the first person to catch him in an outright lie.

With Dog then saying "you're on". This is the kind of thing I'm questioning (and there are other examples). Is this kind of thing really cool with you?

After that came your response to me when I questioned your statement about being a gentleman - and the irony of such a statement in light of the above post.

Originally Posted by denby

I fail to see the irony, this is in off topic and this thread was intended to host such comments. Read the first post.

I don't see this kind of thing covered in the first post - and I don't see Chuckles description of this place being in line with that. I also don't think it's gentlemanly. That's been my point - though perhaps laced with a bit of sarcasm (that I'm trying to drop right now).

Then you conclude with this...

Originally Posted by denby

You have made a valid point about newbies, and I for one when I notice rough treatment have sent PMs to the offender and politely pointed out that what they posted was uncalled for. I even have gone as far as to call them and find out what is going on. You have no idea as to what is going on in the lives of these people and there just might be some under lying circumstance that you are not aware of. Does it make it right what they post? No of course not, but the PM or the call helps them see what they did. Do I keep at them? In your face attitude. No, said my piece and let it go.

You seem not to let it go, to the point of badgering people. Just let it go, you've said your piece. Just ask your self one thing, is this the hill I want to die on? If not then forget about it.

Okay - convicted. I'm like one of those Cruising Bulldogs when I sink my teeth into something. But my question here is...why not challenge that AFOC's post publicly in the thread? Why the PM? That's what doesn't make sense to me - especially in light of the set-up post above. On the one hand, a hammering is planned in a way that anyone (including the target) can see it, then a recrimination is given in a way that no one (including the target) can see it. Shouldn't that be the other way around if it has to be at all?

Now, you asked me to also look at Sway's response at that time. Keep in mind the above progression as you read it...

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Excellent post, denby.

Smack,
If you'd done as denby suggests some time ago, before you started with your accusations, you'd have learned that this thread is where those who think they may really know it all and are therefore hot shytes can come to say that it might just not be so. And that they might just be an ass, and full of crap. The whole thread is based upon the notion that we might be lacking in the requisite self-deprecation necessary for polite discourse.

Again - if this is really what AFOC is all about. No problem. I'll stay out. But...

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Rather than being a place where the sailnet elite come to just gossip and disparage others it is where the regulars come to laugh over such as Cruising with Bulldogs. We do it here so that we do not insult there. In the sailing forums everyone is entitled to their own ridiculous opinion and is free to express it without being pilloried.

How exactly do you "laugh" over silliness in other threads? Where is the line between laughing at and gossiping/disparaging (again look at Tex's post). This is the real question here. Why couldn't you do so via PMs as you stated above? Wouldn't this be more gentlemanly? Sway, how is your insulting someone here better than doing so there if it's still publicly available on the forum? It's still an insult. It's still disparaging. If they are free to express their "ridiculous" opinion - let them be free. How can you guys insist on having it both ways - then being so upset if someone calls you on it? If you expect me to be gentlemanly - shouldn't you live by the same standard?

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Now it's obvious to me that you're smarter than the average bear. So when you repeatedly fail to "get it", it leads me and others to think that you have some type of agenda you're pursuing. If so, it doesn't seem to be going too well.

I'm still trying to figure out what I'm supposed to "get". If it's that it's perfectly justifiable to make fun of, or set up other "unsuspecting" posters/newbies in AFOC. You're right I don't get it. I mean, I personally do that with you guys - but usually very visibly in the threads in which your posting. If I have any agenda here - it's simply questioning this perception that this somewhat hypocritical approach is in any way good, constructive, justifiable, gentlemanly, whatever. Call me a prude. But no one around here is above reproach - regardless of the thread.

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Please re-read denby above. He's not a full-time jerk like me and he's trying to point you in the right direction, politely. You might bear in mind that denby is one of the nicest and most gracious individuals on sailnet. When I grow up, my Mom wants me to be just like denby. In the meantime, this is me being nice.

I have never thought you were even a part-time jerk Denby. I have no beef with you at all. Sway seems to be able to justify some of the more unfortunate goings-on here in his post. But you challenged me on the grounds of gentlemanliness. And I'm trying to find out where that really starts and stops around here.

[TxLnghrn]

Originally Posted by xort

are you a troll if you post off-topic messages in the off-topic forum?

If two negatives make a positive would you be on-topic for posting off-topic in the off-topic forum??

Gotta be careful, I almost posted something about sailing in here the other day. Thanks for the heads-up.

[TxLnghrn]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

T34...if a majority of sailnetters feel a members posts qualify him as an idiot...can we then call him an idiot? Same thing. An insult. A personal attack.

I'd be okay with that, I've been called much worse by a much better group.