Anzacs

[tdw]

Today is Australia's de facto national day. ANZAC Day. While January 26 is officially Australia Day many Australians feel that celebrating the day we Europeans disposessed the indigenous Australians of their land is inappropriate.

That aside, on this day in 1915, at the behest of Winston Churchill, a force of 85,000 troops invaded Turkey at a place called Gallipoli, in the Dardenelles. Of those 85,000, 25,000 were either Australian or New Zealander and by the end of the campaign ANZAC casualities amounted to over 20,000 including 12,000 dead. The combined population of Australia and New Zealand was at the time not much more than four million.

The campaign itself was an absolute disaster, largely due to the incompetence of the British commanders but it resulted in the birth of the Anzac spirit, something that all Australians and New Zealanders hold dear. Anzac casualties in that horrible bloody war were in excess of 300,000, over 60% of total force. Nearly 10% of the total population of both countries volunteered to fight in defence of mother (expletive deleted) England. Despite my pacifist tendencies just typing this brings tears to my eyes. My great uncle was amongst the dead.

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning.
We will remember them."

[ianhlnd]

TDW:

many Australians feel that celebrating the day we Europeans disposessed the indigenous Australians of their land is inappropriate.

The same thing is here in california, groups that think the western states should be returned to Mexico. Great, screw up one country then get the chance to screw up another. The problem is some of our elected politicians agree with them and have promoted their agenda.

I can't figure how someone can lay claim to nothing they had anything to do with and happended 500 years ago?

What does
ANZAC mean? I get the Australia, New Zealand but the rest?

[Neises]

Coo-ee!

I was reading about this earlier, news outlets focusing on protests suggesting the remembrance is a glorification of war. Your disclaimer of being a pacifist isn't necessary with the diggers, a horrid loss of lives.

[nightsailor]

As a sailor who had been around Gallipoli last week with my boat and ANZAC friends, we visited some of the monuments, war memmorials surronded by a beatifull nature, full of colors and flowers.
As usual, I have diffuculty to express my deep feelings about Gallipoli.

We all agree that any kind of War, for any purpose, can't be acceptable.
But after walking in these hills with friends from very far away, I've seen that War, may be as the only example in the world history, which created same sentiments on both sites of the trenches.

Between many poets and writers who expressed their feelings on this land piece, one is worth to remember which deeply express not only one soldier's own feelings but the hole nation's instead.

“Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives;
You're now lying in the soil of a friendly country, therefore rest in peace,
There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us
Where they lie side by side here in this country of ours.
You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries,
Wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are at peace.
After having lost their lives on this land, they have become our sons as well.”

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
President of Turkish Republic

[Valiente]

Originally Posted by ianhlnd

TDW:

I can't figure how someone can lay claim to nothing they had anything to do with and happended 500 years ago?

There is a 2,100 year gap between the last time Israel was an independent state (the "Maccabbean" period) and 1948. Their is an 1,850 year gap between the last time the Jewish people had any political sway in the former Judea, renamed as the Roman province of Palestine. In fact, Jews were forbidden to enter Jerusalem (the "Diaspora").
History of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ireland ceased to be politically independent in the 12th century, and was not fully a republic until 1947. Both Ireland and Israel are now cited as modern democracies (with some fairly well-known caveats). On May 1, 2007, Scotland will vote and may elect a government that may take the first steps to revoke the 1707 "Act of Union" and restore Scottish independence, effectively amputating the United Kingdom.

So I would say that while I agree with you in principle, everything appears to be negotiable when it comes to the will of a people to play the cards "history" has seemingly dealt to them.

[Gary M]

This was a terrible battle fought heroically by both sides. As has been stated not particularly well managed by the British Generals. There was practically no water landed for the troops. They were going crazy from the lack of it.

The Turkish forces, from what I have read, fought very bravely defending their homeland.

Quote:

What does
ANZAC mean? I get the Australia, New Zealand but the rest?
__________________

I believe it is Australia New Zealand Army Corps

Gary

[hellosailor]

How can we possibly give California or any of the western states back to Mexico, when Mexico is the bastard child of the Spanish Empire and first, it needs to be given back to the native Indians?

Who, of course, will promptly stop speaking Mexican Spanish and renounce the Church of Spain in favor of their proper native gods again. (Ask any Castilian, Mexicans don't speak "Spanish" any more than Texans speak "English".)

How far back does who want to go?


In the US, Gallipolli was neatly dropped from the school books until fairly recently. No one wanted to be reminded that the "Allies" of WW2 could have screwed up so royally the first time around. In Churchill's writings he said the memory of it haunted him and drove some of his later decisions in WW2.

[Mick Young]

Lest We Forget

[tdw]

My remarks regarding the European takeover of this place was meant to emphasise the fact that so many Australians feel Anzac Day is far more important to us as a nation than Australia Day could ever be.

NIGHTSAILER - Thank you so much for posting the words of Ataturk. I omitted them from my original post as I thought it was getting to long.

Let's face it, war sucks. No war is good. Some are unavoidable, but none are good. Some, like WW1 are a complete and utter waste with absolutely no redeeming featute whatsoever. However, honouring those who suffered and died doing what they thought was the right and decent thing to do , is our duty, a duty we should perform wholeheartedly and with great pride.

ps - it's the "Australian and New Zealand Army Corps"

[sailaway21]

Well said, tdw. A serious statement by a serious man.

Unfortunately, in this country, we have people who oppose all war, and the current one in particular, which is, of course their right, but have taken their opposition to a political level in which sacrifice and the military man in general are belittled. That prior patriots blood was shed for these fool's freedom is tragic. The end result of their ideology is the gutting of military spending. Without military spending how can we ensure that we have a competent, well trained military led by officers more capable than those at Gallipoli?

It is indeed fitting and right that we should honor their sacrifice for we stand upon their shoulders.